How to Stop Overthinking: The Neuroscience of Rumination
with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby and Donna Jackson Nakazawa
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Nothing Is Wrong With You. Your Brain Is Doing Its Job.
The mental loop you are stuck in has a name. It is called rumination, and according to research from Yale, it is one of the most damaging mental habits researchers can measure.
Have you ever lost a whole afternoon to a conversation that ended three days ago? Replaying it, picking it apart, wondering what the other person actually meant. If you have ever wondered how to stop overthinking when your brain just will not let go, here is what science can tell you. The good news is that your brain is doing exactly what it is built to do, which means there are real, science-backed ways to interrupt it.
I want to share what I learned from one of the smartest science journalists working today, Donna Jackson Nakazawa. She is the author of Mind Drama, a deep, accessible book about the neuroscience of rumination and how to outwit it. We sat down on the Love, Happiness & Success podcast to talk through why your brain does this, the four-step framework she has developed for getting out of it in real time, and what is hiding underneath the loop once you know how to look.
Here is the part that matters most: nothing is wrong with you. You are not weak. You are not failing at being a balanced, mindful person. You are running a survival response that worked perfectly well a hundred thousand years ago and has nothing to do with how smart, self-aware, or accomplished you are today.
“All of your rumination is a signal fire from your past.” — Donna Jackson Nakazawa, Mind Drama
Moments from this episode
Episode transcript
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby: Today, we are talking about something a staggering number of people experience on a daily basis, maybe you, and something that almost no one has a name for, much less a strategy for dealing with it. It’s called rumination.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: In the common vernacular, rumination is those sticky, sticky thought spirals that you get stuck in. You may distantly notice that you’re rehashing that conversation two days ago, or the thing your teenager said in the kitchen, or why you haven’t heard back from someone you texted, and it’s going over and over in your head. It’s that negative, repetitive thought loop that we want to escape, but we lack the skills to get out of.
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby: That mental replay, the 3:00 AM spiral, the conversation you had four days ago that you’re still thinking about. Super common, super problematic. We need strategies for managing it, and that is what we’re getting into today.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: The brain is very good at getting you deep into your stories. It’s terrible at getting you out. One thing I like to remind people is that rumination is really a survival response gone rogue. As soon as we bring up this topic, everyone goes, “Okay, me, me, me.” It’s part of the human condition, and yet one-third of adults do not even know what the term means. It is very difficult to solve a problem that people can’t name and won’t talk about.
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby: Why don’t you unpack this experience of rumination, what it really means? What is it?
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: Rumination is those sticky thought spirals you get stuck in. It’s marked in a couple of ways. One is replaying the past. The other is forecasting what’s going to happen with that person or situation in the future. Psychologists used to separate worry about the past from worry about the future, but no one separates that out anymore, because it turns out the area of the brain that gives rise to our ruminations and locks us in is the same area that gives rise to replaying the past ad nauseam and forecasting into the future.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: You can pretty quickly spot when you’re doing it when you realize you’re harshly criticizing and judging yourself, and harshly criticizing others, in a repetitive and cyclical way. It can also be marked because it makes you feel really bad. No one ever feels good doing it. That’s how we differentiate healthy thinking and emotional processing from rumination.
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby: What you’re describing, with my psychologist ear, is this mental time traveling, either going into the future or back into the past, associated with self-criticism or criticism of others. And it makes me think about the science behind a well-established theory of change in my profession called cognitive behavioral therapy — these unhelpful thinking patterns that will very predictably make you feel badly.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: Yes. What I uncovered in my research is that clinical psychologists have found that our tendency to ruminate may be one of our most harmful human habits. It is tied to a greater likelihood of developing depression, anxiety, substance use, eating disorders, and also cognitive decline. The work of Susan Nolen-Hoeksema at Yale found that rumination was the biggest transdiagnostic risk factor for these disorders. That said, just because you’re ruminating doesn’t mean you have a diagnosis for anxiety or depression.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: This is part of the nuts and bolts of being alive. It is one of the things that separates us from animals, that we have this ability to replay the past and forecast into the future. But the brain is very good at getting you deep into your stories and terrible at getting you out. Rumination is a survival response gone rogue.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: Stepping back across evolutionary time, if you were sitting at the communal fire and you were getting laughed at or dismissed, people rolling their eyes or sniggering, that was physically dangerous. If you were ostracized, you might be set further at the edge of the tribe where you could be picked off, or you wouldn’t get the good meat off the fire. So over time, our sensitivity to emotional social stress evolved along with our immune system, so that at the very first sign of social distress, our bodies prepare for physical danger. Social distress is the most acute kind of stress we can face. Our brain clocks it as physical threat.
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby: Thank you for explaining that so beautifully. Particularly when we’ve been talking about relationship loss and heartbreak recovery, this is when it’s so prominent — that our attachment bonds and social connections are actually linked to our survival drives, and we are hardwired to be very sensitive to these shifts in the social fabric.
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby: Many times people think there’s something wrong with them for having these reactions. They classify themselves as having an anxious attachment style, or they say “I have anxiety or depression,” when no, this is actually how we’re all built.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: We also know that women ruminate more than men, and women have a more robust stress response to social-emotional stress, tied to our evolutionary biology and our need to keep our kids and ourselves safe by paying close attention to social cues. The part of the brain we look at more closely is called the default mode network. It is the area that from the very first moments of conception is listening for cues of safety, mattering, and belonging. It wires and fires up based on those messages from our first caregivers and family.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: One part of it gives rise to stories — what I call mental movies or montages. Another gives rise to the intense emotions that accompany them. Another wires up somatically, for the sensations in your body. Your ruminations, the movie montages, the intense emotions, the somatic sensations, all intertwine to keep you in that relentless loop. All of your rumination is a signal fire from your past. It is asking you to pay attention to those exiled parts of yourself, and above all, the self-beliefs you’ve carried inside you for so long that really are not yours to carry anymore.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: We’re all ruminating more than we used to. fMRI scans show these areas lighting up more intensely and more often than five or six years ago. We’re living in a perfect storm — a firehose of unending news, time online where algorithms activate our social fears, the pandemic barely in the rearview mirror, a loneliness epidemic. You’re not alone. That’s what I want to tell people. You’re not alone.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: We’re all ruminating about the same things for the same reasons. The number one thing we ruminate about is whether we matter to the people who matter to us. We are wired to replay stories around mattering and belonging. And none of us have been taught a single strategy to understand what rumination is, why it happens, and how to get out of it.
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby: Can I share a personal thing? I feel secure in my personal relationships. But I tend to ruminate or worry about things related to more practical things, being a business owner. Work rumination, and financial safety. Are there different dimensions of this, or is it primarily relational?
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: It is not just relational. We have a need to know that our work matters. Think of Maslow’s hierarchy of mattering. Relationships are key, but so is knowing that our work matters, that we’re seen, that we have a contribution to make. Another way to slice it is safety. Are we mattering here? Is the work we’re putting out there mattering? And of course, we’re tied to the need to provide for our families.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: The most effective way I know to help people recognize their rumination and step out of it is a framework I developed called MIST. I chose MIST because when you’re ruminating, you’re lost in a mist of your feelings. The 267 areas of your brain that need to light up for thought, problem-solving, compassion, creativity — all of those are offline. You’re stuck in that one little area, the default mode network on lockdown.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: M is for mental imagery or movie montages — there’s one area of our brain that gives rise to those and gets us stuck. I is for intense interior emotions, the emotions that come along with those movie reels we’ve seen a thousand times. S is for somatic physical sensations that are unique to us with our rumination patterns. And T, we tie it all together.
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby: I run a counseling and coaching group, and I’m in a season of a lot of transition. As a business owner, I think a lot about, do I have the right people in the right seats? It’s tied to financial decisions, security and survival drives. And it literally keeps me up at night.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: The number one time we ruminate. Okay, so let’s do MIST.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: When people describe their movie montages, it’s usually a series of images you’ve played and replayed many times. We begin MIST by saying, “Okay, here is my old story of…” To give examples: “how I’m always dismissed,” or “how there’s never enough,” or “how my voice doesn’t matter.” It is very important that the words you choose are your own, because the words your brain is most likely to pay attention to are the words that come from you.
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby: In the work domain, it relates to trust and a sense of balance. If I’m paying you to help me create results, and your work isn’t effective and I have to step in and do significant parts of your job, this math doesn’t add up for me anymore. But then I feel guilty, and I go into, “Well, is it something that I’m doing wrong?”
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: So here’s my old story of how people I depend on aren’t always trustworthy, and when they’re not, I have to fix it, and that makes me feel angry and alone and afraid. And that shows up in my body — where do you feel it?
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby: My solar plexus area, right where your ribs meet. If I suspect I’m in a relationship with someone I can’t trust to hold up their end, then I feel angry, anxious, overwhelmed, exhausted, and I feel it as a knot in my stomach.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: You tied it all together. T is for tied it all together. Did your ruminative thoughts feel a little more outside of you rather than inside? By seeing our MIST pattern, our personal code, we get the default mode network to stop firing on a locked circuit. It opens up and starts talking to the rest of your brain so you can gain perspective. The things we keep coming back to are trying to tell us something about our early life experiences. It’s a signal fire from your past, asking you to tend to that thing.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: Here’s what I want you to know about rumination. It robs you of your true voice. It robs you of your true wisdom. It robs you of your true knowing. In working with so many people through their ruminative patterns, what I saw brought me to tears — watching women and men find their true voice. Rumination keeps you in a relentless thought pattern with the seductive promise that you will figure out the answer, but the answer doesn’t come. That thought spiraling is covering up the voice inside you.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa: When we do the MIST framework, we come up with an insight about a belief we’ve been carrying our whole lives that is not ours to carry anymore. As a kid, if I believed my voice didn’t matter, I internalized it because I wasn’t old enough to make the leap that the problem was not inside of me. Underneath the old story is a self that signed on for beliefs that aren’t ours to carry anymore. When we set those beliefs down, we get clarity around things we’ve been putting up with, and that voice begins to bubble up in ways we recognize, because it feels old and it feels true.
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby: This is reminding me of an incredible conversation I had with Dr. Dick Schwartz on IFS — this concept that there’s an essential self you carry within you all the time, and our exiled or activated parts can obscure that. If you manage the rumination differently, it’s really just making contact with this part of yourself that’s always been there. It just got lost in the noise.
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby: That was such a fascinating conversation, and I feel like dots have been connected. One of the things I was sitting with is how incredibly helpful it is to have someone with a different perspective walk you through things, provide feedback, reflect things back to you, and hold firm boundaries — like, “No, go back and do that again.”
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby: We’re living in a day and age where we can talk about things to our heart’s content with GPT, and it is easy to get into spirals and ruminate and go down rabbit holes there. Not even just our own minds anymore. So in some ways, that is why it is more important than ever to have human relationships in your life, people to do this work with, to provide the structure and support you need to get into those deeper places.
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby: If you’re interested in connecting some of those dots with a clinician on my team here at Growing Self, you’re so welcome to do that. It all starts with a free consultation to meet one-on-one with a clinician who is licensed as a therapist but also has specialized training as a coach. Sometimes there may be old, unmetabolized trauma that needs to be addressed through clinical treatment. And sometimes it is simply helpful to connect your dots, get insight into who you are, and decide what you’d like to do differently — and that is 1000% in the realm of fantastic coaching.
What to take with you
Overthinking has a name.
It is called rumination, and Yale researcher Susan Nolen-Hoeksema’s work showed it is one of the most damaging mental habits researchers can measure.
Your brain is doing what it was built to do.
Rumination is a survival response that worked at the communal fire and is misfiring in modern life.
There is a real-time interrupt tool.
Donna Jackson Nakazawa’s MIST framework names what is happening in four steps and helps you step out of a spiral in under a minute.
What you ruminate about matters.
The content of your loop is a signal from your past about something that wants attention, not a character flaw.
Knowing this is not enough.
The hardest place to do new behavior is in the moment your old pattern is most active, which is exactly why coaching exists.
Your real voice is underneath.
Overthinking robs you of your true wisdom; reclaiming it starts with naming the loop and seeing it as something happening to you, not who you are.
How to Stop Overthinking: The Neuroscience of Rumination
Have you ever lost a whole afternoon to a conversation that ended three days ago? Replaying it, picking it apart, wondering what the other person actually meant. If you have ever wondered how to stop overthinking when your brain just will not let go, here is what science can tell you. The mental loop you are stuck in has a name. It is called rumination, and according to research from Yale, it is one of the most damaging mental habits researchers can measure. The good news is that your brain is doing exactly what it is built to do, which means there are real, science-backed ways to interrupt it.
Here is the part that matters most: nothing is wrong with you. You are not weak. You are not failing at being a balanced, mindful person. You are running a survival response that worked perfectly well a hundred thousand years ago and has nothing to do with how smart, self-aware, or accomplished you are today.
I want to share what I learned from one of the smartest science journalists working today, Donna Jackson Nakazawa. She is the author of Mind Drama, a deep, accessible book about the neuroscience of rumination and how to outwit it. We sat down on the Love, Happiness & Success podcast to talk through why your brain does this, the four-step framework she has developed for getting out of it in real time, and what is hiding underneath the loop once you know how to look.
Before we go any further, I want to be honest with you. I run a coaching and counseling practice called Growing Self. Most of the people who walk in our doors with this issue have read books. They have downloaded apps. They know what they are supposed to do. The problem is not information. The problem is that your nervous system has been running this same loop for a very long time, and a paragraph in a blog post is not going to override that. What I am about to share is real, and it will give you language and tools. But the actual work, the part where you do it differently next Tuesday at 9pm with the actual person you are overthinking, is the work my team does with people every day. If you want to explore that, our individual therapy and life coaching is built for exactly this. Keep that in mind as you read.
What Is Rumination?
Rumination is the technical term for what most of us call overthinking. It is the sticky, repetitive thought spiral where you replay a past conversation or forecast a future one, locked in self-criticism or criticism of others, unable to let it go. Donna told me that nearly a third of adults have never even heard the word, which is striking when you consider that almost everyone is doing it.
Here is how Donna defines it: rumination is the loop that runs when your brain keeps loading up the same mental movie. It might be a comment your sister made at Thanksgiving. It might be the look on your manager’s face during a meeting. It might be a text you sent that has been read but not answered. The content varies. The pattern is always the same: a reel that keeps reloading, an emotional charge that keeps refreshing, and a sense in your body that something is off and will not settle.
The reason it is so hard to identify is that we have been calling it many other things. We have called it worry. We have called it processing. We have called it being thoughtful, or careful, or detail-oriented. Some of those things are real. Healthy reflection exists, and it serves you. The diagnostic clue, Donna says, is whether the loop is moving you somewhere or just keeping you stuck. If it is the latter, you are ruminating, and naming it is the first thing that gives you any leverage on it.
The good news is that the moment you have language for it, the loop loses some of its power. Most of the people I work with at Growing Self spent years calling this “I am just an overthinker” before they had a name for it. Once they did, the work got easier. We have written before about the patterns that make overthinking so hard to break, and Donna’s neuroscience adds a layer that makes the existing tools sharper. Coaching is partly about lending you language for what is happening inside you that is hard to see from the inside.
Is Overthinking a Symptom of Anxiety?
Overthinking and anxiety are related but not the same thing. Rumination, the technical term for what most of us call overthinking, has been studied for decades by Yale psychologist Susan Nolen-Hoeksema, whose work shows that rumination is one of the most robust transdiagnostic risk factors in mental health (Nolen-Hoeksema, Wisco, & Lyubomirsky, 2008). That means rumination shows up across a wide range of conditions, including depression, anxiety, and certain cognitive patterns. Ruminating does not mean you have any of those conditions. It does mean your brain is running a pattern that, unchecked over time, can contribute to them.
Here is the distinction that helped me when I started thinking about my own thinking. Anxiety tends to be future-focused. Depression tends to be past-focused. Rumination is a particular cognitive process that can serve either one. When your brain is running a worried loop about something that has not happened yet, that is a future-pointed rumination. When your brain is running a regret loop about something that already did, that is a past-pointed rumination. Both light up the same neural machinery.
This is also why rumination connects so naturally to the lens of cognitive behavioral therapy, the evidence-based approach for noticing and shifting unhelpful thinking patterns. Rumination is essentially a category of unhelpful thinking that has gotten stuck in a loop. Therapists trained in CBT have spent decades developing tools for exactly this. So have coaches, when they are well-trained in coaching psychology.
If you are wondering whether to address it on your own or whether it is time to explore whether therapy is the right next step, that is exactly the kind of question we help people answer in a free consultation. There is no version of this where you have to be in crisis to reach out. The first conversation is for figuring out what you actually need.
See what might be holding you back. Take our free two-minute quiz and get a personalized starting place for the work ahead.
Take the Free Quiz →Why Won’t My Brain Let It Go? The Survival Response Gone Rogue
Your brain will not let it go because it is doing the thing it evolved to do. Donna calls rumination a survival response gone rogue, and the framing changes everything once you understand it. Step back across evolutionary time. Picture yourself sitting at the communal fire. The people around you are laughing. They are rolling their eyes. They are sniggering. In the world your nervous system was built for, that was a physical danger. If you were ostracized, even subtly, you might be moved further from the fire, where you could be picked off by other tribes. Social rejection was a survival threat.
Over hundreds of thousands of years, our nervous systems became exquisitely sensitive to the smallest signs of social or emotional distress. Our immune systems came along for the ride. At the very first sign of being misunderstood or excluded, our bodies prepared as if for physical danger. That same machinery is running today, except now the trigger is a text that did not get answered fast enough, an email that landed wrong, or a comment a coworker made in a meeting. The danger is mostly imagined. The biology is identical.
Donna also pointed out something I had not seen put together this way before: the same machinery is more active in women, on average, than in men. Women’s nervous systems evolved with an even more robust response to social and emotional stress, partly tied to keeping ourselves and our children safe by paying close attention to social cues. That sensitivity has been a survival advantage for the species. It is also why you, sitting in your car after a hard meeting, are running thoughts that men in your same situation are statistically less likely to be running.
If you have ever found yourself stuck in a thought loop about a relationship, you have lived a particular version of this. The same machinery is at work whether the person is a partner, a parent, a sibling, or someone you used to date. Attachment researchers have shown for decades that the people we are bonded to are wired into our survival systems. People with an anxious attachment style are particularly prone to running these loops, because the threat of disconnection registers in the nervous system as a true emergency.
What our coaches see, working with people in this every day, is that the loops are real, the biology is real, and the suffering is real. None of it means you are broken. It is also workable. That is why coaching exists. The job of a coach trained in the psychology of mindset is not to talk you out of a loop. It is to help you build the awareness and the regulation skills to interrupt it before it takes over your day.
How to Stop Overthinking at Night
You overthink at night because your default mode network gets louder when there is nothing else competing for your attention. The same brain regions that run rumination during the day are most active when you are not focused on a task (Sheline et al., 2009). Your daytime to-do list, the show you were watching, the conversation with your kid: those are all external inputs that compete with your internal narrative. When the lights go out and the room is quiet, the internal narrative gets the microphone.
This is why so many people who function fine during the day collapse into rumination at 11pm or 3am. The neural network that runs the loop has been there all day. Your daytime activity was just covering it up.
The most useful nighttime intervention I know of is to interrupt the loop the moment you notice you are inside it, rather than waiting for it to play itself out. The MIST framework I share in the next section is exactly this kind of interrupt tool, and it works whether you are at your desk at 11am or staring at the ceiling at 2am. Sleep hygiene matters too. We have written before about why you can’t sleep and the practical interventions that help. But for someone whose insomnia is driven by overthinking specifically, the work is the same as the daytime work, applied at night.
The MIST Framework: A Real-Time Tool to Interrupt Overthinking
The MIST framework is a four-step interrupt tool that helps you recognize a rumination spiral and step out of it in under a minute. Donna walked me through it live during our conversation, with my own ruminative mind as the example, and the framework worked exactly as advertised. Here is how it goes.
M is for movie montages. Your brain is running a mental reel. Your job is to name it. Specifically, you say to yourself, “Here is my old story of…” and then you fill in the blank with the actual content of what your mind has been replaying. Donna’s examples: “Here is my old story of how my voice does not matter.” “Here is my old story of how I always have to work harder than everyone else.” When I tried it on the podcast, mine came out as “Here is my old story of how I have to do all the work for everyone, all the time, and clean up after them when they do not follow through.”
I is for intense interior emotion. Once you have named the reel, you name the feeling that comes with it. Not what the feeling means. Not where it came from. Just the feeling. Anger. Fear. Anxiety. Loneliness. Exhaustion. The brain pays attention to specifics. Generic feelings will not land. When I named mine, it was angry, anxious, overwhelmed, and exhausted, all at once.
S is for somatic sensation. Your rumination shows up in your body. Find where. For some people it is a knot in the stomach. For others it is a tightness in the chest, a clench in the jaw, a heaviness in the shoulders. Mine showed up exactly where my ribs meet, in my solar plexus area. Donna’s showed up in the same spot. It is not coincidence; that is where rumination most commonly lands somatically.
T is for tied together. You bring all three pieces into a single sentence: “Here is my old story of X, which makes me feel Y, and shows up in my body here.” That sentence is your personal rumination code. Once you have it, the next time the loop starts running, you can name it as it is happening, and the naming itself takes some of the loop’s power away.
What Donna and I both noticed in real time is that articulating the code in this format pulls the rumination from inside you to outside you. You stop being the loop. You become the person watching the loop. The brain region that runs rumination, the default mode network, stops firing on the locked circuit it had been running, and the rest of your brain comes online again. That is the part where you get clarity, perspective, and access to the rest of yourself.
The What’s Holding You Back? Quiz is short, free, and gives you a personalized read on what your particular loop is tied to. It is the easiest place to start once you have learned to name your code.
Take the Two-Minute Quiz →Why Reading This Article Is Not Enough
I want to be honest with you about something. The framework I just walked you through is real, and it works. People use it. Lives change because of it. But I would be doing you a disservice if I let you close this article thinking that reading it was the work.
Here is what almost always happens. You read an article like this one. Something clicks. You feel a little hopeful. You make a mental note to try the new approach the next time the situation comes up. And then the situation comes up, and your nervous system does what it has done for decades, and you find yourself in the same loop you have been running for years, wondering why nothing changed.
The reason is simple. You are not unmotivated, and you are not broken. You are trying to override an entire neural pattern by yourself, in the moment that pattern is most active. That is the hardest possible time to do new behavior. It is almost impossible to do alone.
What works is having someone in your corner who knows your specific patterns, who you can text after a hard moment, who can help you debrief and recalibrate before the next one. That is what coaching with a real person does. Not lectures. Not generic advice. A real, ongoing relationship with someone who is paying attention to your life.
This is, very specifically, what life coaching and individual therapy with a coach-trained clinician are designed for. Our coaches at Growing Self are licensed therapists with specific training in coaching psychology. They use frameworks like MIST, like CBT, like the Internal Family Systems framework I have written about elsewhere on the site, and they help you do the work in the moments of your real life.
If something in this article landed somewhere specific, that is the signal to talk to someone. We do free first conversations for exactly this. No commitment. No pressure. Just a real conversation about what is actually going on for you and whether what we do here might help.
The Old Story Underneath, and the Voice Waiting Beneath It
Once you can name your rumination code, the next layer becomes visible: the old story underneath. Donna’s most powerful reframe, in my opinion, is that rumination is a signal fire from your past. It is not random. It is not a character flaw. It is a part of you trying to get your attention about something that needs attention.
The “old story” you name in the M step of MIST is rarely brand new. The trust issue that drives my work-related rumination did not start last week. The “my voice does not matter” loop that drives someone else’s rumination did not start at their last performance review. These are patterns that get laid down early, often before we have the cognitive capacity to choose whether to take them on.
The research on this is well established. The Adverse Childhood Experiences study, run by Felitti and colleagues at Kaiser Permanente in the late 1990s, showed that early environmental adversity (which includes everything from overt trauma to chronic criticism, parental divorce, or growing up with a frequently absent caregiver) shapes adult emotional and physiological patterns in measurable ways (Felitti et al., 1998). More recent neuroscience research on the default mode network has linked these early patterns to specific neural signatures of self-referential processing in adulthood (Sheline et al., 2009).
Not every ruminator has a clear childhood trauma. Some of us were raised with steady, loving parents and still ended up with patterns. Adult adversity counts too: workplace inequity, persistent social marginalization, the cumulative weight of being a woman in a culture that asks women to absorb more emotional and relational labor. All of it can train the nervous system to ruminate. The point is not to find a villain. The point is to recognize that the loop you are running is carrying information.
Donna told me that the work, ultimately, is to reach the voice that was there before the loop got built. She put it in a way I have not been able to forget: rumination robs you of your true voice, your true wisdom, and your true knowing. Underneath every ruminative pattern is a person who already knows what to do, who already knows what is true, and who is being kept quiet by the noise of the loop. The work is to set down the inherited beliefs that are not yours to carry anymore, and to start trusting what is underneath. Part of that work is learning to silence your inner critic, which is often the loudest voice in the loop and the hardest one to recognize as not actually you.
This is the territory where the work goes deeper than the framework. It is also where the most lasting change happens. If you have made it this far in the article, you are already doing the meta-work, the noticing of your own noticing. The next step, if you want it, is having someone help you trust what your real voice has been trying to say. Our team does this every day. We would be honored to be part of your next chapter.
xoxo,
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby
P.S. If something in this article hit somewhere specific, do not let it slip away by tomorrow. The What’s Holding You Back? Quiz is two minutes and gives you a clear next step. The free consultation is also right there if you are ready to talk to a real person about what you read.
About this episode’s experts
Donna Jackson Nakazawa
A science journalist whose work sits at the intersection of neuroscience, immunology, and emotional life. For over two decades she has translated cutting-edge research into clear, useful, beautifully written books for general readers. Her newest book, Mind Drama: The Science of Rumination and How to Outwit Your Inner Defeatist, is the most useful and humane explanation of overthinking available, grounded in current neuroscience and full of practical tools including the MIST framework. She is also the author of Girls on the Brink, The Angel and the Assassin, and Childhood Disrupted.
Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby
Licensed psychologist, marriage and family therapist, and Board Certified Coach. Founder of Growing Self Counseling & Coaching. Host of the Love, Happiness & Success podcast (15M+ downloads). 25+ years of clinical practice. Creator of the Growing Self Institute, where she trains licensed mental health professionals in evidence-based coaching psychology.
Resources Dr. Lisa talked about in this episode
Sources cited in this episode
- Felitti, V. J., Anda, R. F., Nordenberg, D., Williamson, D. F., Spitz, A. M., Edwards, V., Koss, M. P., & Marks, J. S. (1998). Relationship of childhood abuse and household dysfunction to many of the leading causes of death in adults: The Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) Study. American Journal of Preventive Medicine, 14(4), 245–258.
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