When Your Partner Needs Space: What It Really Means and What to Do

Jennifer Cunningham: You’re in a conversation and you’re starting to get really activated and you need a little space to emotionally regulate. Call a time out and then take space.

Lisa Marie Bobby: So what does it mean if your partner is telling you that they need space? This could be really scary to hear, especially if you tend to be a little anxious in relationships, right?

It can feel some ways like they’re withdrawing.

Jennifer Cunningham: If that creates anxiety in you, then it’s going to feel like, what did I do wrong? W- why is it that you need this when it sometimes isn’t about that? That how the partner who needs space communicates it to the partner who’s receiving the message really matters.

Lisa Marie Bobby: It can actually mean a lot of different things and actually too have a lot of different opportunities to strengthen your relationship in this moment as opposed to making it worse, which can also happen if you’re not handling this with intention. So on today’s episode of Love, Happiness, and Success, we are talking with an expert marriage counselor to help us all decode what it means when your partner needs some space and how to navigate these moments with a lot of confidence and clarity in order to support your connection.

If this is your first time tuning in, hello. I am Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby. This is Love, Happiness, and Success, and we are here every single week to talk about your relationships, your life, your wellbeing, your career trajectory, and every single topic is designed to teach you something and leave you with some actionable takeaways that you can apply to your life today.

And that is definitely what we’re gonna be getting out of today’s podcast. We’re talking today with my friend and colleague, Jennifer Cunningham, who, like me, is a marriage and family therapist who specializes in relationships, communications, matters of the heart. And also, who, like me, is a board-certified coach, which means that she’s looking at not just understanding, but actually implementing the changes that will change your outcomes.

And Jennifer, we have a lot to talk about.

Jennifer Cunningham: Yes, we do. When it, when it comes to needing space, this is a topic I get all the time with my couples in different forms- Yeah … and different ways. So I look forward to diving in.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Well, thank you so much for being here and sharing your expertise, ’cause I- you are truly an expert.

I mean, you are boots on the ground, clinician/coach doing this day in, day out. And so let’s just take this from the, the top, if it’s okay. When people say, “You know, my, my partner is needing space, it feels like they’re withdrawing a little bit,” what does that mean in terms of the experience? Like, what are people hearing, what are they seeing that leads them to believe their partner’s needing to take a few steps back?

Jennifer Cunningham: Well, there are so many things that could be going on, both with the partner asking for the space and the partner who’s receiving that message. With the partner- Mm-hmm … who needs space, it may be that they’re trying to figure out what are the best steps forward. You keep running into the same problems. I don’t know how to handle this anymore.

And so taking- Mm … steps back may give them an opportunity to think through and gain clarity, and so they’re asking for the opportunities for that. For the partner receiving it, it can feel like rejection. It can feel like separation, disconnection, so many different pieces as they’re trying to figure out, because sometimes we don’t have the words to express how we’re feeling- Mm-hmm

or where we’re at, because of all things in school, they never teach us how to do these things. And so sometimes we lose our words, and so sometimes the other partner needs time to process and figure out what their words are, and that can make you feeling very alone and vulnerable And in relationships, you wanna know that the other person has your back.

And asking for space feels like possibly to them that they don’t, they’re being rejected. And it can lead to that, when you talk about attachment styles, can make you feel very anxious when you may have felt more secure in the relationship, which there can be shifting attachment styles as you are in a relationship, in different seasons of the relationship too, and where you’re at and where you might go to today, but-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Well-

Jennifer Cunningham: necessarily, I mean- Yeah … you dive there, but.

Lisa Marie Bobby: But it, it’s so relevant, right? Like, what, what we’re each bringing to the table in terms of our attachment styles impact what we need in the moments of communication when things do start to feel tense or hard, and to have some people who might need to take a little bit of space in order to organize themselves, get to a better place, like that’s part of how they cope.

But that can create a lot of anxiety or, like, negative reactions in a person who is really wanting to talk it out or, or solve problems in that moment that are related to historical attachment styles. But even though this dynamic can fluctuate, like if you are with somebody who maybe wants more space than you do, it can activate anxiety that might not be there in other relationships because of the dynamic.

So, like, this is very multidimensional.

Jennifer Cunningham: It is.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah.

Jennifer Cunningham: It’s so complex because it can wake up things within us that we don’t know are there, which is where we have so much stored in our minds, and we have a vision of what our relationship should look like and how they should be conducted, how we should move forward, what connection means, what distance means, and why people would bring it up.

Because we also have the influence of social media today saying if people want distance, then they’re out of there. There’s other things happening. Mm. So we’re all these other voices that are coming in too, into, that can add our, to our anxiety or create more separation or distance in the relationship as well.

Lisa Marie Bobby: So what you’re saying is that, like, there, there’s one layer, which is the communication that’s happening between two people, but that the way we interpret what is happening in those moments can be influenced by things we’re connected to that are almost like interpreting it for us, that can lead us maybe to feel more threatened or anxious compared to if we got more curious about our own experience and what was going on with our partner.

Jennifer Cunningham: Absolutely. I say a lot of times, one of the things that I talk about with my clients is learning to not take things personally. So when it feels like a personal attack, we respond differently. We have a perception of when things feel very personal. And how we, we work through it. And so if that creates anxiety in you, then it’s going to feel like, “What did I do wrong?

W- why is it that you need this?” When it sometimes isn’t about that, but how the p- partner who needs space communicates it to the partner who’s receiving the message really matters. Because if it’s just like, “Hey, I need space,” and then they walk out the door, h- what are you supposed to do with it? Because when I think about, like, needing space, sometimes you need space in a conversation, and I talk about this- Right

quite often because I talk about this in the way of processing, and that each of them process differently. And sometimes talking about things, depending on who you are, your personality type, like all sorts of different variables come into it, you may need space to be able to process the information being presented to you versus being able to just process it there in that moment.

And so- Mm-hmm … the needing of space may be just a ask for The ability to process- Yeah … it differently versus it, processing it out loud with one another. Right. And I found, I find a lot that the couples that are together, one processes out loud and the other one often processes internally or needs space to process as well.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah.

Jennifer Cunningham: And so sometimes that need for space is what keeps the conversation that they’re trying to have from turning into an argument or something that’s not, doesn’t feel solvable or resolvable, and it keeps you from getting too heightened in it. There are so many different facets to why somebody would ask or need space.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Okay, so major headline takeaway, I mean just the first one, I’m sure there will be many more, is that to not personalize what is happening right now and immediately jump to, “Oh, I’m not loved. They don’t care about me. They don’t, this relationship is not important to them,” blah, blah, blah, ’cause we can spiral, right?

Yeah. And go up there. Because, because if, if we do that, you know, then we get escalated. What you’re saying is that there are a lot of functional and healthy reasons why someone might know themselves well enough to say, “Let’s slow down. Let’s pause. I need some time and space to process,” that go into processing styles, differences in the way we communicate, internal versus external.

I think even like a protective instinct to say, “If we keep, you know, this train keeps going down these tracks, it’s gonna get messy, and so let’s just all pause. Everybody calm down. And then we will continue on having a more constructive conversation.” But if we ex- personalize, spin out, we’re not allowing this healthy functional stuff to happen.

Jennifer Cunningham: And, and so m-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah.

Jennifer Cunningham: Yes. And so many- Mm-hmm … times when it’s not said in a healthy way-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Mm-hmm …

Jennifer Cunningham: which is often how it is, is it leaves the other person, like, feeling abandoned. So, like, we’re in the middle of a conversation. I’m feeling really emotionally activated, and I notice I can’t stay in the conversation.

I’m just thinking about that next thing I need to say and, and then I need to go away to calm down, to emotionally regulate, ’cause that can be another reason why you might need some space. And- But if I just walk away, what does that leave your partner with? It leaves them with feeling, oh, what we’re saying is not important.

What we’re doing isn’t-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Cunningham: They don’t know when you’re coming back or anything else. So one of the key things that I hope that people can take away from today is this, is if you n- you’re in a conversation and you’re starting to get really activated and you need a little space to emotionally regulate, is first just call a timeout.

You can say verbally- Hmm … let’s have a timeout. You can give a hand signal to do a timeout, and then just say, “Hey, right now, this is too much for me, and I need 20 minutes.” ‘Cause it takes at least 20 minutes to emotionally regulate. Hmm. Then take space. And, and then come back when you say you’re gonna come back.

So if you say y- you’re gonna take 20 minutes, don’t be gone for 30 minutes, 40 minutes, 50 minutes. That erodes the trust between you. But if you come back in 20 minutes, you know what? You might still be activated. Then together you can decide, do we continue with this conversation now, or do we put it on the back burner for tonight and we come back to it tomorrow or the next day?

And you see, just those two extra things, one, visually s- saying, “I need a timeout.” Yeah.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Cunningham: And saying how long, and I guess three, following through as well-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah …

Jennifer Cunningham: really does make a difference in building that trust and taking away sort of that fear of abandonment that you had. Yeah. If you follow through and you do those things.

Then I know I can trust you. Sometimes you’re not gonna be able to stay in all the conversations, but I know I can have those hard conversations when and if they need to be happen.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Jennifer, I have to tell you something. I’m really hearing the different layers of what you do. Like, this is so i- informed by so much depth about processing and emotions and, like, the attachment pieces, but you’re also really, like, talking like a coach in a lot of ways.

You’re like, “Okay, here’s what to do,” but, like, teaching the series of skills that are not necessarily instinctive. And what you’re saying is, if you are the person who might need some more space in a relationship from time to time, it’s really important that you know how to handle those moments effectively.

Because if you operate in a way that is not em- like, emotionally sensitive in those moments, or if you don’t have enough self-awareness inside of yourself to even know what’s going on, much less be able to articulate it, that also is gonna be really damaging. And so, like, there are a lot of skills on both sides of this equation that need to be learned, probably even overtly talked about.

Like, is that a lot of what you’re doing with your couples in this type of communication coaching, would you say?

Jennifer Cunningham: Helping them to- Mm-hmm … see who they are in the relationship, as well as their partner, and helping them- Mm-hmm … see the problems is the problem, versus the people being the problem.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Ooh.

Jennifer Cunningham: Yeah.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Well, no, ’cause honestly, I mean, in distressed relationships, that is where we go, right?

It’s we’re not seeing the problem, we’re seeing, it’s, you’re, you, you are the problem.

Jennifer Cunningham: And when you are able to take some accountability for your part in it, too, it really changes the dynamics of how you’re able to communicate through things. Because no one wants to be labeled as the bad one, the evil one, the one who’s causing all the problems.

Because what I know about truth is you have a truth, I have a truth, and the truth actually lies somewhere in the middle. And so- Yeah … when it comes to couples work, I find a lot of times, particularly with the men, they’re really scared that I’m gonna take one side or the other. And when it comes to couples work, it isn’t about taking sides, it’s about helping you hear one another.

And one of the things that I work with and we work a lot in, is how do you hear one another, and how do you take accountability for your part in doing something different? We can know there’s a problem, and you can talk about it all day long, and we can keep talking about the same problem, but if you’re not taking actions or small steps, I always say small steps, not leaps with my clients.

We’re not expecting you to change it overnight. And so it’s really important to remember that the problem is the problem, that both of you have your own perspective, and perspectives are created over time. We were talking about perspective a little earlier, and it made me always remember the talk, thinking about the Gottmans, and they talk about-

Lisa Marie Bobby: John and Julie Gottman-

Jennifer Cunningham: John and-

Lisa Marie Bobby: marriage and family researchers.

Jennifer Cunningham: Yes.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Just for our friends who may not yet be familiar- I, I wanna- Yeah, I know exactly what you’re talking about … the right family For the civilians, yes. Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Cunningham: But with the, the Gottmans and their research lab really talked about a thing called negative sentiment override.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Un- unpack that. What does that mean?

Jennifer Cunningham: So what that really means is that sometimes we put on glasses with our partners, and the glasses themselves have lenses that are distorted, and the distorted world-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Crap-colored glasses.

Jennifer Cunningham: Yeah, crap-colored

Lisa Marie Bobby: Instead of rose-colored glasses.

Jennifer Cunningham: Absolutely. Got it. And you start to think that every action, everything they do is negative.

It’s against you, and they don’t care about you, and you start looking for that evidence. And as you look for-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Well, and that comes from having experiences that are hurtful, that don’t feel good, and that over time influences what you expect and how you think.

Jennifer Cunningham: Absolutely.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah.

Jennifer Cunningham: And as they look for it, that’s all they find.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Cunningham: Where the partner might be moving forward and doing something differently, or that they heard your request and they’re trying to meet you where you’re at, or different things, and still you would s- you could see them as just continuing to be everything is negative, nothing is working here, what are we doing here?

Versus a positive perspective, because they talk about, the Gottmans talk about in a sound relationship, how s- how important it is to have a positive perspective towards your partner. And I know I’m not saying that for all relationships or all relationships are at that point, but how it- Yeah … does erode the communication- Right

over time.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Right.

Jennifer Cunningham: When we’re looking for-

Lisa Marie Bobby: We know from research that having a positive view of your partner, meaning positive expectations, we think well of them, we give them the benefit of the doubt, those are characteristics of healthy relationships that work well. And so, like part of what we do, and, and I know you do, is sort of assessing a couple as they come in the door, like, “Where are you on that metric?”

And then working with them to develop it. And I just wanna say that out loud, ’cause for somebody hearing that and be like, “Oh my God, we, we do not have that right now,” which is so normal. Right. In the context of a distressed relationship, that’s one of the things that does get damaged, is that’s part of what we need to rebuild- Mm

to, in order to have better communication, in order for people to feel more connected. And so it’s not like an all or nothing thing, and I just wanted to say that out loud. But I really appreciate that, Jennifer, that there’s a dimension of negative sentiment override versus those positive expectations, and whatever’s higher is going to impact your communication.

But also that a- ability to stay in the ring, and that could be one of the factors that contributes to people feeling like they need some space versus it’s safer to stay close. I- is that what you’re saying?

Jennifer Cunningham: That is what I’m saying, because I, I think it really- Yeah, yeah … influences that perspective of what’s happening when the partner asks for space, because it’s how you’re viewing them, the relationship, the history, and all those pieces tie into that very moment that the one partner is asking for space.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah.

Jennifer Cunningham: It is impo- important to remember that different seasons in a relationship, you’re gonna have different ways you view the relationship that it, and where it’s at. Yeah. That perspective really does give meaning to something that doesn’t have meaning yet.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Cunningham: And meaning of, “I need space,” can be perceived as a threat or- Mm

invoke different fears.

Lisa Marie Bobby: A, a big piece of understanding communication in relationships is understanding the fact that there are many different facets of reality that are all true all at the same time, and that it’s very easy for people to get into conflict when they are focusing on the part of that that feels most meaningful to them, and when their partner is perhaps focusing on a different aspect of reality.

But nobody’s necessarily wrong Can you give us an example of, like, what this commonly looks like? I mean, I know you work with so many people in marriage counseling, relationship coaching. What are some of the usual suspects?

Jennifer Cunningham: Some of the usual suspects is, when it comes to conflict, is that I have quite a few couples who argue over finances.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Right.

Jennifer Cunningham: One will say, “Hey, we should stay within budget, and let’s continue on this pathway.” And the other one will go, “Yes, but I would also like to go on vacation, and let’s do this because I really love that social aspect. It’s what makes me feel really connected.” And they’re at these- Two opposing viewpoints because one wants to protect the budget and where their money is, and the other wants to be able to spend some of the money that they have and be able to enjoy it and not just pay the bills.

And so both things can be true. They need to be budget-friendly and that they need some time away.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah.

Jennifer Cunningham: I, I think that’s an easy example of where that could- Yeah,

Lisa Marie Bobby: no, that’s so common. And it’s that nobody’s necessarily wrong. Mm. But it is what are you almost valuing or prioritizing, where one person is saying, “Yes, but with this budget, we will be able to save X amount of money a month,” and the other person is saying, “And what is the point of my life if we can’t have fun once in a while?”

Yeah. And, like, having to find a middle path there. But when people get polarized, that can be one of, you know, people just start to get so activated, and that’s when they’re like, “I can’t talk to you about this anymore because it’s…”

Jennifer Cunningham: And that same financial discussion is, “You are trying to control me and everything I do,” with the one who wants to- Mm-hmm

go on vacation, and the other one is, “You never accept my influence on anything,” and is, “I’m always the bad guy here, and why can’t we work together?” Both of them can feel so polarized on opposite sides- Yeah … of why can’t we just come together- Yeah … and…

Lisa Marie Bobby: Right.

Jennifer Cunningham: And-

Lisa Marie Bobby: But so it’s just like character stuff, right?

Like, this narrative around, “You’re a bad person. You’re trying to control me,” or, and it becomes emotional. It becomes personalized. And going back to your point, like, we, we need to solve the problem, not actually turn this into a, you know, accusing each other, bring a lot of negativity into the situation.

Yeah.

Jennifer Cunningham: Uh, and that’s where I find coaching really cool, is how we really dive into what do you both value? What are the things- Mm … that you’re moving towards? What is it that you actually want? Then you can have a very different discussion on this particular subject with, on finances. Because once you sort of understand where you’re both coming from and where you’re going, then you can find that common ground.

When you start to plant your own flags at different ends of the field, it’s, you’re not really finding that common ground. I’m right and I’m right. Mm-hmm. And there’s, there’s not that in between. That can occur when there’s not a common denominator, so to speak.

Lisa Marie Bobby: And like, uh, go- you know, going back to that, that part of like when your partner is asking for space, yeah, I think that maybe there’s one level of this.

It’s like that emotional activation piece, but I’m also wondering, is there another layer of this if, because it feels like it’s just gridlock over and over again, and the communication isn’t going anywhere, if that can lead somebody to start to believe it, it doesn’t matter what I say, I’m just… This person is trying to control me or, like, fight with me, to badger me, to get me to, like, bend towards their way of perceiving it, and it is almost like a self-protective thing.

Like, I, I don’t wanna keep putting myself in this situation when there’s no space for me and my perspective here. Is that another reason why somebody can say, s- start to feel like they’re withdrawing? Like, maybe it’s not even said out loud, but it feels like they’re getting more checked out.

Jennifer Cunningham: I think that happens in all the small things, and that- Mm

some people do get to that point of, “I don’t know how to discuss this with you. I don’t know how to work this out with you. I feel like we just keep repeating things over and over again. Why am I doing this? Where do we go from here? Because I don’t wanna keep living like I am right now.” And sometimes they feel that having the space will create some clarity for them.

Is this the relationship I want? Do I wanna continue moving forward? So-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah

Jennifer Cunningham: Beyond

Lisa Marie Bobby: that Oh, like be, like going into like, do I even wanna do this? Well, okay, so what, let’s talk about that part as well. What, what I w- what I was, uh, actually thinking of, it kind of like going into the relational dynamic stuff.

Okay, so going back to the, like the Gottman’s work, right? There’s the, the four horsemen- Oh, yeah … of the apocalypse, which can be the criticism and contempt that is associated oftentimes with somebody who’s, like, pursuing. But then there’s also this reaction to conflict, which can be defensiveness, like, “No, that’s not what happened.

You’re misunderstanding me,” or stonewalling, which is this refusal to engage. And I think that those are other dimensions of somebody kind of like creating space in a relationship. Is that deflecting or, or retreating? And so I definitely wanna talk about, like, bigger ask- asking for space. But with the emotional withdrawal that we can see in relationships, stonewalling, defensiveness, a refusal to, like, participate in conversations, emotional layers of that, where’s that come from?

Jennifer Cunningham: I, if I were to just give it a couple of words, I would say it doesn’t feel safe anymore to be- Mm … or to work through things, or this is a line in the sand that I’ve drawn before, and I don’t know how to get over it, so it feels very vulnerable. It can feel overwhelming. When you ask somebody to do something different over and over again, and it seems that they actively choose to continue in the same pattern, it can feel very defeating and lonely.

So-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah …

Jennifer Cunningham: the emotion-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Hopeless …

Jennifer Cunningham: hopeless. Very,

Lisa Marie Bobby: yeah, like,

Jennifer Cunningham: and so- When you feel very hopeless in the relationship, you don’t necessarily know how to create a pathway forward, or you feel like- Yeah … you’ve done it all. I hear that a lot from the people who ask for space, like, “I feel like I did it all.” Mm-hmm.

“We’ve done all these things. I don’t know how to move forward anymore. I don’t even know- Mm … what that looks like. All I know is it doesn’t feel good in my body, and I don’t wanna do this anymore.”

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah.

Jennifer Cunningham: It’s interesting that so many people don’t know where their emotions are in their body, and it’s something that you learn over time, and we’ve learned so much more over my three decades of me doing this about our mind and body connection and how emotions sit with us in different places.

Yeah. But I would say, like, that emotional side of needing it is feeling like you’ve hit a wall, and you don’t know how to crawl over it, so to speak.

Lisa Marie Bobby: But, so Jennifer, this is, this is so interesting, and I just need to say this out loud. And again, this might be activating for some of our friends here listening to us, which I’m okay with,

Jennifer Cunningham: right?

Because I believe that people listening to this particular podcast

Lisa Marie Bobby: are here because they want to learn and grow and have a different perspective that is maybe a little bit more nuanced. And so what you’re talking about is the real deal, which I will just say that when you are in a relationship, and it’s feeling hard, and-

Jennifer Cunningham: Yes

Lisa Marie Bobby: you see your partner pulling away or not wanting to participate in conversations or kind of backing up or shutting down or all these things, it’s very, very, very easy to construct a narrative around their emotional intelligence, their communication capabilities, their capacity for whatever, that, that is sort of like the reason why this is happening is because of something having to do with them.

Yes. Which could also be true, but what you’re saying is a very systemic point of view because you are a marriage and family therapist, and this is a different perspective, which is also, so what are they experiencing from and with you that is also contributing to this? And that is the part that I think is so hard for people to see is if your partner is taking a step back, what are they reacting to?

How are they perceiving you? And is there something that you could do a little bit differently around coming across in a more emotionally safe way or with more tolerance or more respect and appreciation, more positivity, more, you know, even just making space for their perspective and letting them in.

Jennifer Cunningham: Right. Yeah. Right. It, it goes back to that- piece that I talked about before of taking accountability and- Right … and looking at the relationship. When somebody creates a pause, a stop, a standby within the relationship, it, there’s their perspective on what is going on, and we have our own perspective, which sometimes we like to s- plant our flag in it.

But- Which

Lisa Marie Bobby: is the right one. I mean,

Jennifer Cunningham: yeah. You are right, right. And, but also sometimes it’s that time to reflect and go, “What are the things that they’re trying to tell me?” And I had a coach- Right … talk about it once and what is their list of intolerables, is what they called it.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Cunningham: And-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Hmm …

Jennifer Cunningham: and then, and then thinking about that and really, like-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Right

Jennifer Cunningham: trying to figure out is there, like you were saying, is there a pathway forward? Is there something I could tweak, do a little bit differently to help them- Mm-hmm … because always go back to the word safety. I know everybody’s not- That’s not their motivation. But for, to feel emotionally safe means that they can be vulnerable.

That means that they can have the further conversations. They can bring up things without fear of what might be the repercussions. Yeah. And so in relationships long-term, when certain patterns get created, these certain fears s- can start to develop, and it can feel unsafe because, “Oh, when I brought up something that was about my feelings,” I hear this a lot, “I brought up my feelings, and then you made it about you, and you didn’t actually ma- listen to my feelings.

You just started,” this goes back to the defensiveness we were talking about with the four horsemen. Mm-hmm. D- depending where you’re coming from, but you’re not actually hearing me. And- Right … one of the pieces I work with couples with all the time is, how do you hear one another? How do you do it in such a way that it’s not just surface level?

And I’ve always liked the Imago dialogue, which is- Mm-hmm … really kind of that mirroring back and forth of what did your-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Mm-hmm …

Jennifer Cunningham: partner say. But I like to take it to another level of understanding what are their feelings, what are they trying to say to you, what are their feelings, and what is the purpose of them saying this?

Are they looking for you to do an action? Are they looking for you to apologize or take responsibility? You can just ask them, “Did I get it right?” And, and so this formula helps them to feel heard and helps you to feel heard because sometimes that’s what’s needed.

Lisa Marie Bobby: We’re talking about what it means when people are needing to take a step back, and so we talked about, you know, what does this look like in a communication thing, people taking, like, a pause, calming down in communication settings.

We talked about what it means if people are backing up, like, emotionally and some of the dynamics related to that. But now I’d love your insight on, what does it mean if somebody’s actually asking for a break in the relationship? How do you interpret that from your perspective?

Jennifer Cunningham: Well, I think it’s different for different relationships.

Mm-hmm. Number one, whether it’s a newer relationship to a more seasoned or old- Hmm … a longer relationship. I, I see it means different things. For the younger relationships, maybe they don’t know what it looks like to move forward, or they’ve maybe not experienced some of the things that they’re encountering within the relationship.

I need space. I need to get out of here because I don’t know how to do that, is something that I’ve seen- Yeah … I’ve run into a lot.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Cunningham: Couples who’ve been together for years, over six months to- I, separation means I need to regroup. That being in this relationship right now, I am missing pieces of myself.

I am missing pieces of what I’m able to think through, and me needing space or moving to another location even for a few months, then I hope to gain clarity on who I am now and what I want.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah.

Jennifer Cunningham: Because-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah …

Jennifer Cunningham: that’s a really important piece that is intermingled both in my individual work and couples work with people, is we do change over time.

Mm-hmm. And so you’ve been with somebody 10, 15, 20, 30, 40 plus years, and you look different than you did day one, as do they. And so sometimes it’s like, do I still see you in this next season of my life? And so- Yeah. Right … people need to gain perspective depending on where they’re at. So what is hard is saying, and I need space, isn’t definitive a lot of times.

It doesn’t just say, “Oh, well, I’d like to separate.” It doesn’t say, “I want a divorce. I wanna break up.” Mm-hmm. It just says, “I need space,” or it’s like a pause.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah.

Jennifer Cunningham: And that can- Mm-hmm … feel v- very disconcerting depending on how you, you function around creating a pause or the questions you have around it or the reasons for it.

But there are so many reasons why they might ask for it and need that space because in that same environment with their partner or family or what have you, they might not be able to gain the clarity that they feel they need in that moment.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah.

Jennifer Cunningham: But I also see that sometimes it’s, along with all the reasons, but sometimes it started with the death of somebody who was close to them.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Interesting.

Jennifer Cunningham: Reflect on themselves.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah.

Jennifer Cunningham: Is this what I want? Is this still the course that I want for my life? And, or change in job or loss of job- Mm-hmm moving, like there’s all those major transitions, kids moved out-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Oh, yeah …

Jennifer Cunningham: with, uh, quite often with that.

Lisa Marie Bobby: So, so you’re saying that there, and, and we know this, you know, a, a, a crisis can really catalyze a transformation that in many ways is, is very positive, right?

Mm-hmm. Like memento mori or a stage of life and like, okay, I guess, you know, our kids are moving out. Who am I now? Right. And that sometimes it can be really helpful to have space, almost like to, to go on a vision quest. Like, I need to, I I don’t know if there are any other… This is a personal share, probably too much information, but, so i- in my family growing up, like a tarot was part of it.

We were talking earlier, if it’s okay to share, that you came from, like, a, a religious culture growing up, and mine was sort of like metaphysical. Both spiritual. We do have a lot in common. But there’s a, a card, the hermit card- Okay … whereas you need to, like, separate and listen to your inner voice, your inner light, in order to find the direction from inside of yourself.

It’s just a symbol, but that, that’s what it can be, and I have seen that too, particularly people who’ve been in relationships for a long time, in midlife and kids getting older, need, need that who am I now? And if they’re in the jumble of the day-to-day, it can be hard to hear that. A- and, I, I think related to this, I have also seen a, a very positive application of this, which is people who are, love each other and there’s a lot of strength in a relationship, but who are in a very high-conflict season.

There’s a lot of just hostility and, like, fights breaking out left and right. A therapeutic separation to take a little break, maybe live in different homes, and still coming together in marriage counseling or communication coaching while they’re, like, resolving the communication pieces. It’s almost like resting the, lo- lowering the heat, making it so that there aren’t these, like, fights breaking out between sessions, and it’s almost safer feeling.

And they’re, so they’re still working on a relationship or repairing communication without it, like, re-injuring the relationship while it’s happening. They need space to do that.

Jennifer Cunningham: Some people really are set not to hurt other people, so much so- Yeah … that they hurt them more. And they don’t mean… And asking for a break when you truly want to be away means that you’re not-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Break up.

Jennifer Cunningham: Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Like missing a word.

Jennifer Cunningham: You’re not honest with yourself- Yeah … or with the other person. And then just dragging it along and slowly letting it dissolve. No. Just is elongating the heartache that the other person experiences. And so-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Well, why is it more destructive? Say a little bit about that, ’cause I think the person who’s thinks that they’re letting them down slowly, right, is actually being more destructive, because I do think that people who do that typically are actually trying to be kind in a misguided way.

And- What do they need

Jennifer Cunningham: to know? Absolutely. They think that, I actually had a client talk the other day, talk about how, “Oh, I, I don’t hurt people.” And I’m like, “Oh, okay,” and then we talked about some ways where she had. And but sometimes you, you just aren’t cognizant of it. But the thing is how it hurts the other person more is it keeps giving them a carrot.

It keeps telling them- Mm-hmm … that there’s still hope. So they keep sitting in the hope that someday you’re going to want to work on this or move forward, and so it doesn’t allow for that other person to move forward, and instead they stay stuck. And we do a lot of, or I do a lot of work with heartbreak recovery, and- Right

so many people can stay stuck because they were given that, that, “I just wanna go on a break,” but the break means I wanna break up, but I’m not gonna ever tell you that. I’m just gonna try to be friends with you or be friendly with you or however those next steps look, and it continues to give that person false hope.

Mm-hmm. That there is a pathway forward instead of letting them know that it was a good run, but this isn’t the relationship I wanna be in, and then there’s clarity in there. But part of that is knowing yourself, knowing what you want, and that sometimes it’s better to rip the Band-Aid off than there, than it is to slowly take it off to try to keep yourself from feeling the pain.

Lisa Marie Bobby: It gets them s- uh, they, they are dangling in this emotional purgatory. They are still attached to you, not knowing that you’re no longer attached to them, and that that’s not fair. Okay, so then this is a hard one, and I’m gonna ask you anyway. So i- imagine a person, one of our friends here listening to this today, has had that type of experience, and they, they said they were coming back, and they want them to come back, right?

They are still attached Is there anything that this person could do in order to, like, almost get clarity about what this is? They said they were coming back. Are they? Is there a conversation they could broach or something that you would look at to, like, reality test what’s really going on? Or do they just need to decide for themselves what they wanna do?

Jennifer Cunningham: One, they could just look at- Mm … a relationship inventory of what the relationship really was and where they’re at and how they feel about it if they were to take one step back and ride it out. That’s one. Two- Mm … they can, if it’s still viable, contact the person and ask very black and white questions.

Like-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah … “

Jennifer Cunningham: You said you, you needed a break. You took time. Do you feel that we’re over or that there’s no pathway forward for us? I just need clarity.” And just, like, being that blunt about it so that it gives that person the opportunity, the other person, to just say yes or no, and hopefully not continue to dangle the carrot.

And then the third, like you were talking about, is, and any time that you are in a pause, there’s always an opportunity for growth and to work on yourself and to figure, take that time for you to be able to move forward and- And time, if you’re able to let it go and give it its place that you’ve learned from that relationship, versus it is the end all be all of your existence.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah.

Jennifer Cunningham: We have different ways that we’re attached, and some, some relationships are harder to let go of than others, and especially when there’s false hope. And so-

Lisa Marie Bobby: Yeah …

Jennifer Cunningham: it is really looking at different paths of understanding, whether it’s understanding the relationship, getting blunt, black and white clarity from the other person- Mm-hmm

if it’s possible, or it is taking those steps to take care of yourself or to learn about yourself so that you can be ready- Mm … to be in another relationship or to let go- Yeah … of that relationship.

Lisa Marie Bobby: Amazing. All right, Jennifer. Well, this, I like, note to self, you’re gonna be coming back on this podcast very soon, and I think we should talk more about s- because you also have so much expertise in heartbreak recovery and how to heal, grow, move forward when a relationship has actually ended.

So you guys stay tuned for that conversation with Jennifer Cunningham. But, but Jennifer, thank you so much today for just lending your expertise to this conversation as a communication and relationship expert around how to navigate these moments that can be really confusing, but also can also be extremely important turning points for a conversation or even for the trajectory of a relationship.

It’s been a true pleasure. Thank you.

Jennifer Cunningham: Thanking you for having me on today, and I look forward to port- to have future discussions.

Lisa Marie Bobby: I will also share, just as a quick outro, uh, Jennifer, I know that you would not promote yourself because you’re not that type of person, but I will. Jennifer is such an excellent couples counselor, relationship coach.

She is a person that I refer people to personally when they’re like, “Lisa, who should I talk to?” Jennifer Cunningham is one of those, and she’s on my team here at Growing Self. She’s part of our network. If you would like to talk with Jennifer about your situation, come to growingself.com/jen, J-E-N. That’s growingself.com/jen.

You can learn more about her, and also book a free consultation meeting with Jennifer to simply talk about what’s going on, your hopes and goals for your relationship, and find out whether or not she is actually the right person to assist you to attain the outcomes that you want to achieve. So growingself.com/jen.

And Jen, I sincerely hope that our friends come and talk with you about these difficult moments because you have so much to offer. So thank you for sharing just a little bit of that today.