Is Your Partner Showing Withdrawn Behavior?
How to Communicate With a Partner Who Shows Withdrawn Behavior
Does your partner show withdrawn behavior? As a couples counselor and marriage counselor with decades of experience helping couples grow together, I know that few things are as frustrating, or as hurtful as trying to communicate with an avoidant partner who refuses to engage with you. It’s hard NOT to get upset and angry when you’re feeling rejected, unloved, or uncared for when your partner shuts you out, gets defensive, or invalidates your feelings.
As I wrote in “How to Communicate With Someone Who Shuts Down,” the problem is that many people who clam up as a defensive strategy when things get tense don’t understand how destructive their behaviors can be to your relationship. They often feel like they’re trying to protect the relationship from conflict with withdrawn behavior. Of course, this strategy generally leads to more conflict as the person attempting to get through (like you) will naturally become more and more upset when you feel like you can’t actually get through.
Emotionally Focused Couples Therapy for Withdrawn Behavior
This communication dynamic, with one avoidant partner withdrawing further and the other becoming increasingly escalated and upset, becomes a classic “pursue-withdraw” cycle, which tends to get increasingly worse over time.
But there is help, and there is hope. One evidence-based form of couples counseling that highly effective marriage counselors use called Emotionally Focused Couples Therapy (or EFCT) is extremely helpful in going right to the emotional heart of this cycle and helping couples heal their bond.
Knowing about the type of marriage counseling and couples therapy is important because other approaches to couples counseling are not as effective when you are attempting to break the pursuer-distancer pattern in relationships. Let’s face it, when both partners are viewing each other as the “hostile enemy” because of having had so many negative interactions with each other, basic relationship advice like “go on a date night” is not going to be helpful (and definitely not fun). Couples in the grips of a negative relationship system can dutifully go on date nights at the suggestion of their marriage counselor only to have yet another yucky feeling (but usually quieter) fight in the middle of a restaurant.
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Withdrawn Behavior and How to Stop a Pursue / Withdraw Cycle
While many couples really do need the support of a professional couples counselor to extract themselves from an entrenched pursue/withdraw cycle through EFCT patterns can become really entrenched over time, it is possible to reverse these when they’re still gestating. If this is an emerging dynamic in your relationship, I thought it might be helpful to you if I put together a “Communication Problems” podcast-mini series to help you understand what’s going on underneath the surface and offer some guidance to help you improve your communication with your partner if their showing withdrawn behavior.
Communication Issues with a Partner Who Shows Withdrawn Behavior
“Communication Issues” is the single most common presenting issue that brings couples to marriage counseling. The first thing to know about communication problems: Absolutely ALL couples struggle to communicate with each other from time to time. Just because it’s happening in your relationship does not spell doom. Truthfully, by making a few positive changes in the way you interact with each other, you can avoid many communication problems — and start enjoying and appreciating each other again.
To help you with this, I put together a few podcast episodes on the topic of communication issues to help you understand what’s going on. I designed these to listen to in order. If you haven’t listened to the first two yet, I strongly suggest going back and doing so before you move on to this one.
In episode 1, “Communication Problems and How To Fix Them,” we discussed the most important and empowering things you can remain mindful of if you want to improve the communication in your relationship: Systems theory, and your own empowerment to affect positive change.
In episode 2, “Dealing With an Angry Partner,” we addressed the oh-so-common “pursue / withdraw” dynamic that so many couples can fall in to. I discussed the communication issues that you might encounter, and how to resolve them, through the lens of Emotionally Focused Couples Therapy — one of the most well researched and scientifically supported approaches to couples counseling. (And what we practice here at Growing Self!)
Specifically in episode 2, we looked at this communication pattern from the perspective of the “withdrawer” (i.e. the person in the relationship who might be perceiving their “pursuing partner” as angry or even hostile). In that episode I gave you some tips to help get back into the ring with your partner, some insight into why they may be so angry, and things that you can do to help soothe their anger and bring the peace back into your home.
Withdrawn Behavior in Your Relationship
In this third and final episode of our “Communication Problems” series, we will be discussing how to “deal with a partner who shows withdrawn behavior” and exploring the dynamic from the perspective of the partner who pursues — the one who is attempting to engage with a partner who seems emotionally distant, avoidant, and unresponsive. If you’ve been feeling frustrated or angry because your partner refuses to talk to you, this one is for you. In this episode I’m talking about what may be leading your partner to seem emotionally withdrawn, as well as things that you can do to help your partner come closer to you emotionally, and start opening up again.
If you’ve listened to the first two episodes already, I invite you to listen to this one too (or access How to Communicate With an Avoidant Partner on Spotify) to learn:
- The issues that may have nothing to do with you that are leading your partner to show withdrawn behavior
- The biggest mistakes you can make when dealing with an avoidant-prone partner who shows withdrawn behavior
- Strategies for dealing with your anger and / or anxiety if your partner is making you crazy
- Communication strategies to help make it easier for your partner to open up to you
- The paradoxical trick to making your partner feel more interested in coming toward you
I sincerely hope that this series helps you understand what may be happening at the root of your communication problems, as well as some real-world tips for things that can help you improve your relationship.
P.S. One fantastic, low-key strategy to start a dialogue with your partner is by taking our “How Healthy is Your Relationship” quiz together. You can send your results to each other, which opens the door to talk about how you’re both feeling — with out an anxiety-provoking conversation for your conflict-avoidant partner. Just be ready to learn some things you didn’t know! Here’s the link to get the relationship quiz. xoxo, LMB
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Is Your Partner Showing Withdrawn Behavior?
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Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby is the founder and clinical director of Growing Self. She is a licensed psychologist, a licensed marriage and family therapist, and a board-certified coach, as well as the author of “Exaholics: Breaking Your Addiction to Your Ex Love,” and the host of The Love, Happiness & Success Podcast.
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Hi Dr.Lisa, I enjoyed hearing your podcast although I could only relate to being vulnerable to the other. I am in a long distance relationship since 7 months (almost 8 on the 25th) and my boyfriend has recently (i believe) emotionally withdrew from me. I had found suspicious evidence that he was cheating on me but I emotionally exploded on him saying that “I know that you are cheating on me”. We’ve always had communication problems and he would tell me he’s very forgetful but is very genuine in what he says (i believe so). The last message I received from him was him (a week ago) saying that, he felt attacked and that it hurts that I would think that. Before the incident we called and had confrontation and I asked if he was cheating on me, he said no and promised but I found it rather strange how he’s always on his phone (online on things, games, social media). The night he stopped replying to me I talked to his friends, and his mother (he had not replied to his mother’s calls and voicemails for a week after and they are VERY close). I had exploded on him for his lack of communication that lead to me think of him cheating. I begged him to tell me the truth and if he wanted to break up, but he had never said anything about ending it. He said that no matter what he felt like he’d come out as the bad guy and he “can’t take that right now”,and that was since last week, it got worse when both of his best friends tried to get him to talk to me too and he had ignored them as well. I’ve never cussed at him and I’ve been reaching out to him a lot in a vulnerable way but I really don’t know how long I can wait. I have hope and he has had past experiences shutting down from work (he is also stressed and overwhelmed with work). I don’t know what else to say or do but I know he is not the type to leave me without saying anything. I have hope but I just feel lost and confused sometimes, as if maybe he wants me to leave him so he’s not saying anything. I’ve talked to his Mom and she had said he’s responding a little bit more to her, he’s online playing games with his friends but my messages are still left unresponded. I was thinking that maybe he’s slowly getting back up and will talk to me soon. A friend of his tried to talk to him and he said that he was hurt that I don’t trust him and it’s also a part that he’s very forgetful. At nights like these I cannot help but cry and feel lost.
Alice thank you for reaching out and sharing your story with me, and the community of readers here on our blog. I can understand how this would be a very painful and confusing time. I thought that your situation was such a good example of one type of relationship that I often hear about, I addressed your questions on a recent episode of the Love, Happiness and Success Podcast: “Should We Breakup or Stay Together.” I don’t know if this was the perspective you were hoping for, but as a marriage counselor and therapist (as well as a life coach) it is my honest opinion.
I know that my perspective is only one, and you are the ultimate expert on what is right for you, but I hope my long-term view helps you decide where to go from here. If you do decide to break things off for good, you might consider checking out another recent podcast, “The Stages of a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart.” I hope that both of these help you find your way forward Alice — you’ve been through a lot, and you deserve peace and healing. All the best to you on your journey of growth. Lisa
P.S he was in the military & was in iraq war…i do believe he suffered an extent of ptsd as he hated hearing fireworks but loved hunting hmmmm. He came back from war to find his very controlling, had to walk on eggshells, manipulative 1st wife was having an affair. We became neighbors while both going thru divorce but didn’t start interacting till abt a yr.. just incase any of that matters lol thanks
Hi Dr. Lisa,
My moms name is actually Lisa too, and that’s why I feel more comfortable actually talking to you. So my problem has something to do with someone who has issues from their past and childhood and may be dealing with depression anxiety, and maybe some PTSD as well. We started dating and got together really fast and it was so great. We get along super well and when we were together it was great. He seemed to really care about me, and I feel like I showed it in return. Then one day, it suddenly changed and he became distant but I ignored it because I was so into him, and he broke up with me claiming he needed “space,” and “time.” Of course I cried and was angry with him and blamed him for everything. Two to three weeks later he wanted to talk in person, I was reluctant because I was angry and hurt by his actions, and I didn’t understand them. He told me that he’s scared to fall in love, and that he hates talking about his feelings. I told him okay let’s work on it together and try and make this work. Then the next day he ghosted me. I was even more hurt than before because I let him back in only to be crushed again. Keep in mind I have issues of my own with anxiety, and I have childhood trauma as well. However, there are things that I have accepted and gotten over that I don’t think he has because he refuses to open up to anyone not even his family. He’s tried therapy and it didn’t help either. So now let’s get to the current situation. We’re both in the military, and as I was working a duty one day he just randomly showed up and was working the same one. It was awkward and I felt so much anger and basically ignored him as much as I could. I couldn’t help but still look at him even though because you know I freaking fell in love with this guy. So my shift ends and I go home and receive a text. Every time the communication has started back up, it was always because of him and on his accord. He told me that he was sorry of course (he has said sorry a lot) and he also said he needs help and that he’s just scared. I told him I wanted to help him but that I can’t be hurt again. After that, we began talking again and things were nice and almost like how they were when we first started, but then he fell off again. He started to become distant and our conversations through texting and our hangouts became less and less. Then one day he just completely ignored me and read my message to hangout. I thought he was ghosting me again, but then he messaged me before it hit the week mark like nothing had even happened. So I of course was on the defense, and then accused him of not caring about me, which he then said he did. He came over last night and I attempted to talk to him about what’s been going on because he accepted it as normal. He hates talking about feelings and kept saying he doesn’t know, and I understand that he hates talking about them and is used to running away from love but I tried and tried. I asked him what he wanted to do from here, and he said that he doesn’t think either of us are ready for a relationship right now, and while I agree with that, at the same time I want to help him. I told him I was confused and he said he was too which was no help at all. I actually made him read a note that I wrote and it even said I loved him in there, he didn’t seem too worried about that though because he said it doesn’t change anything. So we solved our problem as usual with sex. It’s a vicious cycle that just keeps happening and hurts me to no end, and confuses me. I feel like he truly cares about me, but his wall prevents me from seeing him as him, there are things he opened up to me about in the beginning of the relationship that I know have hurt him deeply but I also think there is even more that I don’t know about, and I want him to be able to take his walk down in front of me. My friends hate him and think I should just end it, but it’s different when you’re in love. I want to help him I really do, and I know I’m not a therapist and I can’t make him get over his issues, but if I could just get him to talk about them, it would be so much easier. I’m at my limit here, I just want it to get better. Please if there is any help you could give at all, it would be very appreciated. Thank you.
Hi Breanna, thanks for sharing your question. What you are describing is a very common situation — so common, I may just address this more deeply on an upcoming episode of the Love, Happiness and Success Podcast. (Stay tuned!) I cannot give you insight into what is going on with this person, but it’s pretty clear from your story that you have become attached to someone who 1) behaves hurtfully towards you 2) is not able to have a mature relationship 3) you cannot depend on and 4) is jerking you around at his leisure. Why is this okay with YOU?
Your pain is there for a reason. Like, if you put your hand down on a hot stove it would hurt because your body is telling you that you are in danger and you need to take action to protect yourself. This situation is creating pain for you, and I would encourage you to listen to that rather than continue twisting yourself into pretzels in efforts to rationalize your continued involvement with him. Because your situation sounds like a short-term version of this toxic relationship I wrote about.
So, rather than attempting to solve the mystery of his mental and emotional state — hoping that if you can somehow pick that lock and get him to talk, he’ll magically be a great partner for you — I wonder if a better use of your time would be to figure out what is happening with you? Addictions can take many forms, and can sneak up on you…. especially when they get confused with “Love.”
I’m not sure if my sharing my perspective helped you, or totally pissed you off, but there it is. I hope that you find peace, healing, and a fantastic relationship with someone who is able to be a good partner for you Breanna. You deserve that.
Hi,
Your podcast has certainly helped me understand behavioural aspects of my partner.
It is extremely disturbing that he does not participate as much emotionally and withdraws after an argument.
Though we spoke after the argument and apologised but he is still disturbed.
It’s been over 10 days and I can see the reluctance to do the things we shared in our relationship. I find it hurtful as I miss his presence and loving nature. Now he prioritizes other things that earlier wouldn’t be….
Do let me know if I can get any form of advice or online consultation as this is the fourth time around. On earlier counts we had separated for a period of 3 months till he recovered. The last round lasted for a month ……where I had to leave as I couldn’t handle the way he was behaving around me. I felt more like an option…
Candy, I’m really glad to hear that this podcast helped you understand the dynamics of your relationship in a new way. I think that you are wise to be thinking of marriage counseling or couples therapy in this situation. My hope for you is that he would learn ways to develop distress tolerance skills so that he could make it through a conversation with you without shutting down to such an extreme degree. It’s hard to sustain a relationship when that is happening!
If you’re shopping for a couples counselor, a great choice on our team is Jenna Peterson. She is especially good in helping people learn how to deal with big emotions in the context of their relationships. Or you can just look through our “About Us” page and find someone you’d like to schedule a free consultation session with. I am hopeful for you that with good couples counseling you and your partner will be able to communicate with each other, and create a strong, healthy relationship together. Best of luck to you! LMB
My BF and I been together for 5 years and been on LDR for one month now. We had a fight last Monday that really made him upset. Up until now he refuses to talk to me nor respond to my phone calls. It has been a week now and I still haven’t heard anything from him. It’s really driving me crazy since this is the longest time we did not communicate for being together for 5 years plus the fact that we are miles away from each other. 🙁 and just this morning I tried to access his yahoo email and found out he’s checking out on Tinder since Wednesday. I know he’s just trying to divert his attention because we’re not on good terms but it hurts like hell. Why on earth should he sign up for Tinder without even trying to talk to me. Im feeling so hopeless now. I’m afraid he will no longer communicate and just decide to break up with me. All I want is him to talk to me and sort this out. How long should I wait? Or do I need to start moving on and forget him. 🙁
Remi: Refusing to talk to you or respond to your calls for over a week, and trolling on Tinder after a fight makes me think that it may be a blessing if he DOES break up with you. Consider the fact that he’s actually giving you a lot of information right now about his character, his level of emotional maturity, and his commitment to the relationship. Sometimes when people don’t talk, they actually share more honestly about themselves than when they do…. Listen to him, and act accordingly.
Hi Dr. Lisa,
This episode was extremely informational! How would you recommend applying these ideas when you are in a long distance relationship and your partner has withdrawn because they are grieving the loss of someone? I found myself nagging them for the first time not too long ago, and that resulted in them blowing up and withdrawing further. I’d appreciate any thoughts you can share!
Which CBT online course would you suggest? I am the volitile type snd husband is the withdrawn type…I have gotten a lot better but keep trying to better myself! Thank for your amazing podcasts!!!
Raye
Hi Raye, you can certainly take our Happiness Class for a good, all purpose online course that walks you how to use the principles of CBT. However, in my experience, these patterns can be challenging to shift without support. The reason why is that, funnily enough, even when you start making changes in the way you behave towards your partner they might still react the same old way to you at first. It’s like people get so used to their partner being one way that it almost confuses them at first, and they don’t know how to respond differently yet. This is why it can be so hard to change the dynamics of a relationship. (Which makes you want to snap right back into your old patterns too). This is one of the reasons why couples struggle to make changes on their own. So, LSS, this is where a great couples counselor steps in: Meeting with someone who can coach you in the moment around how to react differently to each other, think differently about what the other person is saying, etc, can basically knock your relationship out of that old rut and into a genuinely new level. I think it’s fantastic that you’re looking for how to change your thoughts but if you’re serious about changing this dynamic I hope that you get the support of a competent marriage counselor too. Sincerely, Lisa Marie Bobby
Hey Raye-Leigh, can I ask you how you deal with a volatile/withdrawn relationship? I am volatile and my boyfriend is more avoidant and it really worries me that this is going to be a big future problem in our relationship.
Hi, I enjoyed your podcast and listened to it as I thought I was the pursuer. My long term partner and I of four years have split up. When we first met I wouldn’t get involved with him for three months because he is ten years younger and I’d split with my previous partner ten months earlier. He was patient, didn’t push me and said he’d wait. When we did get involved though it went quite quick in terms of us declaring love etc and I voiced my fears about that to him. At first he opened up to me that he’d had his heart broken twice, how much it hurt him and his mum died when he was 16 and that had a huge effect, but when I tried to delve deeper as we got to know each other he wouldn’t open up further. He’d just say he didn’t like talking about it and I felt as though we couldn’t get that deeper emotional connection. Within our relationship he was very thoughtful. He’s a tough guy outside with a soft interior. He’d surprise me with cinema tickets for films he may not like but he knew I would and he’d send me lovely pictures and quotes declaring his love. As time went on though he got more and more selfish. At first we’d go out to eat occasionally (not expensive meals just the local pub) we’d go for walks and swimming and days out, odd weekend away but over time he was less and less willing to do this unless we were with his family or his friends. If we did go he’d quite often ( not always) be quiet and it felt to me like he didn’t really want to be there. If his family or friends were there he was totally different. I never criticised him for this but I did raise it and he said he didn’t really enjoy those things and then when I said but you seem happy when you family and friends are there, he’d say I don’t enjoy it then either I just pretend to. That made me feel why could he put an effort in with them and not me but I never said that directly to him. On occasions I tried to raise issues (which I did in a nice calm way not getting at him) he’d explode ranting and raving and then he’d disappear and ignore me. When I eventually took a stand against this (refusing to just give in and carry on as though all was ok when he said sorry – still without being prepared to listen to how he made me feel when he did that) we didn’t talk for days and he ended up saying he’d go as he’d had enough and he couldn’t make me happy anyway. I told him I loved him and asked him not to leave but he wasn’t having it until I said ok then go and then he said no he loved me etc. Since then I’ve felt unable to really raise issues, I’ve kept them inside and it got to the point where I was reluctant to ask him to go out for tea as I felt guilty as if I was bothering him somehow and I didn’t want to see the look on his face like I’d asked him to climb Everest. So we then mainly stayed in most weekends watching tv which was fine for some weekends but not every weekend. If we went anywhere it was his family, his friends (sometimes mine). Through all this we got on really well and I loved him so much as a person because despite his selfishness he was very thoughtful in some ways, loving and kind and I was happy on the surface but inside I felt as though what I wanted didn’t matter. Like he’d done things in the beginning and now he’d “got me” no longer needed to. I tried doing things on my own and that was ok. Over time I started going out with friends more and my sons and I did meditation classes n stuff but still no more willingness from him to take me out. It got to stage where I was so frustrated when he said he didn’t want to go to a colleagues wedding reception with me but would if he really had to (it was his face like it would be torture to him) I shut down. It was deliberate on my part. I started staying in with him at weekends but just sat there not talking, being miserable. This was the last eight weeks of relationship. Through all this we’d had problems with my youngest son taking drugs. My partner was very supportive to me through all this and helped me to be firm with my son and stick to boundaries but couid sometimes be critical if I tried a more understanding approach with my son. Not in a bad way but sometimes I felt he was a bit hypocritical as he’d do stuff for his daughters like lending them money he didn’t always have (I didn’t have much money to lend my son) but then if I did give him the odd thing (when I thought he was trying to change) he’d comment on it if my son then went off the rails again. He also grabbed my son by the throat and threw him out on one occasion when my son was being verbally abusuve to me. Yet on the occasions he blew up (which wasn’t often) he’d call me names such as crazy and bitch in front of my son. He apologises afterwards but that doesn’t just make it right. We went in holiday in Europe in August as that’s one thing we both like and he’d said I know we’ve not been getting on as well I think a hol would do us good and it was good but he blew up on me on the last day because I’d not got him a coffee at breakfast as usual, he just said sarcastically thanks for my coffee and I said I’m sorry I didn’t think, I thought you were getting your own (which I did as the restaurant was emptier than usual and I was tired and a bit distracted) he looked angry so I frowned at him at which he blew up in the restaurant said look at your face you’re crazy really loud. I was upset and started crying. When he came back to the table I said to him I’ve had enough of this when we get back you can get your stuff and go. He stormed off sulked in the room all day refused to go on the boat trip we’d booked, even though I said come on let’s just go, so I went to the pool on my own came back after an hour asked him to go out again he refused saying we’re not together. At this point I told him I’d shut down yes because all I got from him lately was rejection, disgust and contempt to which he replied you haven’t got a clue (meaning he loves me ??? ) when I said what do you mean by that he got angry refused to discuss it and when pressed by me to tell me got angrier said you’re winding me up now so I shut up and went out again. He’d said to me I can’t believe you told me to leave, have a go back yes but that! You must have thought about it and you’ve not even apologised. I didn’t apologise as I’d meant it when I said it and felt we needed a proper talk but daren’t try because of his temper. He wouldn’t go out all night and ruined the last day of hol completely. I apologised the next day saying I shouldn’t have said that – just to get him to talk to me. Anyway I tried to talk to him about never going out anywhere in November but I’d been shut off so long I wasn’t emotionally in a place to do it properly and I got upset and he got angry and it wasn’t resolved. I wanted him to say I love you let’s see if we can compromise but he didn’t he said I think it’s run it’s course, but I think he does that it’s part of him not opening up as he then said what do you think do you think we can fix it ? and I was so upset instead of saying yes I do etc I just said I don’t know what do you think ? To which he replied do you want me to keep doing things I don’t want to do and I just said no instead of saying no but that’s what you’re expecting, can’t we compromise as I just feel I can’t. I don’t know if it’s because he gets angry as he did at one point in that discussion. Anyway after that it was a bit better but I still felt it wasn’t resolved it ended a few weeks later after he had a row with my son when he came home very drunk one day. My partner had had a drink in the house but wasn’t drunk and I’d been out for an hour with a friend and I’d had a drink. I was in kitchen making pizza for us all and they started bantering about football. They support opposite teams and it got nasty. He’s never had cross words with him in four years apart from the one incident when he intervened as above. It ended with him slapping my son as my son wouldn’t shut up he went on and on and on and my son told him he treats me like shit never takes me out he said it was my son made me like this. Then my son said he was boring and swore at him and told him to go. He packed his stuff that night. I told my son to go to his dads which he did and I asked my partner not to go but he said he wasn’t putting up with that. The next day I asked him to talk but he wouldn’t he said don’t try and persuade him to stay as nothing I couid say couid change his mind there was no way back after that night. He said he felt there was something odd about my reaction and it was odd how my son had said that a few weeks after I’d raised it. Both my sons have noticed he won’t go out. He lays on settee all day from morning to bed time all weekend and they knew I wasn’t happy. He then said I can’t put up with that I’ll end up killing him and that’s not good is it, and then he said I told you I’d had enough last week didn’t I to which I nodded. I said to him I’m not going to try and persuade you to stay I think you should go after last night (but I didn’t mean permanently I felt we needed space) I then said don’t go like this come in and let’s talk and he said it had to end some day didn’t it, somehow why not like this and he went. When I thought about it after I wondered if he’d felt a bit betrayed because of my son saying what he did and the timing. I left it a few hours and text him telling him I loved him and why but I’d felt unimportant and unloved for a while. He replied sorry it had to end like this take care. His family are lovely and his sister phoned me a few days later when she found out. I told her what had happened and she said leave him a bit give him time he’ll come round and I said you don’t know what’s been happening though and she said he’d said same thing. He’d also mentioned whether age difference might be to do with it which really upset me as that was one reason I held off in beginning and he assured me it wasn’t an issue he never thought about it. I felt as though he was using that as an excuse to avoid his part in it all. After a couple of weeks I text him again as I wanted to make it clear to him that although I didn’t know exact reason he’d gone as he wouldn’t talk, I’d tried to put myself in his shoes and maybe he felt betrayed as though I’d wanted him to go all along and maybe felt rejected as if he couldn’t make me happy I acknowledged I’d shut off and blamed myself because I shouldn’t have I should have talked to him sooner instead of letting it get so we were less affectionate, loving, less sex etc and both so emotionally unable to deal with the issue when I raised it. I also said he’d not raised it either though so I couldn’t just blame myself and I wanted to let him know I didn’t think it was necessarily over and time and a good talk might sort it. I also said my son would apologise to him. He replied after three days. Said sorry for taking so long to reply but he’d been thinking a lot and still thinks it’s right decision to split maybe I’m right maybe we should have addressed issues earlier but we didn’t and it had gone too far, all things. It’s hard to get back to how it was when it gets that bad and personally he doesn’t think it can be fixed now but he might feel different in time but he doesn’t at minute, sorry. I replied next day saying I felt he was right it’s right to split but for different reasons. He’s gone and that sound be reason enough for me but I did think we needed time apart so ? I also said I thought we could heal our relationship and him and my son’s now I’ve spoke to my son but he had to want it too and doesn’t now, if ever and I can’t change his mind and wouldn’t try to and I have to respect his decision. I mentioned the keys to house which he’d got and said meet me in new year to hand them over when less raw. Say a proper goodbye (I didn’t really mean that I meant to talk but that’s text for you)!or he couid drop them at his sisters. He took keys to his sisters. I’ve been to his sisters at her invite since. She said he stayed in at new year and showed me a video of Christmas Day. He looked wretched. We didn’t discuss my partner much I didn’t feel I wanted to and kept conversation about other stuff as we ate a meal, but as I left she asked about my son and we talked about my partner a bit. She said his mum treated him like golden boy and he couid do no wrong and it hit him hard when she died. She said that and him getting away with stuff had just had some effect on him. She said he’d always been selfish and when I said he can be lovely though can’t he she agreed and said yes he can he can be really thoughtful and then she said She loves him dearly but I’m better off without him. I thought I was the pursuer but I’m the end maybe I wasn’t maybe he was as he was trying a bit and I kept pushing him away. A few weeks before I had talk with him we’d slept together after a long gap (I always had to initiate that too) and he’d suggested a day out to something I’d mentioned and I just brushed it off because I knew I wanted to bring up the issue of not going out and if I went I knew if I then brought it up he’d say we’ve been out -and then it’d go back to how it was before. I brought up the not going out the next day. Anyway now I feel as though he’s heartbroken- his sister agreed I said to her he didn’t look happy on that video and she said I know she doesn’t get it any more than I do but I know she’s not been in the relationship so it’s hard to explain. Now I’m confused. I really miss him so much as he is a lovely person in so many ways, never a bad word about anyone, funny, kind, genuine but he has another side that if he came back it would need to be different – I’m heartbroken and miss him and I hate to think he’s upset too and yet he’s gone and I’ve bit heard from him since last text. I don’t know if I ended the relationship or he did. I think if I’d begged him to stay he might have but I couldn’t and shouldn’t have to. Some days I think just let him go he’s not prepared to work on it and you deserve better then I swing to but you weren’t nice to him for weeks then I think there’s times he wasn’t nice to you too. Then I’m heartbroken again feeling I’ve lost him because I’ve not dealt with things in right way but at same time I don’t know if he’d be willing to change and go out more and compromise and talk about issues. Then I wonder if he only stopped doing that because I shut off but then I think he was like that when we were good but a bit more willing to do stuff. I know this is very long but one more thing. I feel in my gut that he’s scared to commit. When we were good there’d be times he’d be dismissive or even not answer me when I commented on something- it couid be a daft comment about a tv programme. He also feels everyone he loves leaves him and I wonder if fear of rejection is driving this on his part and maybe mine too. I’m just trying to make sense of it all I couid go on but I’ll leave it there. Thank you for letting me vent on here.
Thank you for sharing your story with our community Mandi. I am glad this feels like a safe space for you to “vent.”
Hello Dr Lisa, I am having some issues with a woman I have met online. We have been talking for 3 weeks of and on. A few weekends ago she found out her bestfriend hung himself and left two kids and a wife behind my friend was devastated she basically shutdown in withdrawn herself and wouldnt speak to me for three days. We started talking again for a couple days she promised when things settle down we will go out on a date. She said to me that it’s hard for her to get close to anyone because of what she has been through in the past marriages and relationships. I told her she shouldn’t be scared if she finds a decent man who would really care about her and she says that I am a kind decent man. Anyways she went to the funeral the next weekend and then she completely pushed me away havent talked in almost 3 weeks now except for one time and she said this “I love the flowers Jonathan but I am not a good person. I will never be good enough for you. You’re a great man and you deserve someone who is 100 times better than me. I am very flattered and I appreciate your infatuation with me but I realized I am just so damaged. I won’t be good for anyone ever”. She said she has anxiety and depression and I think she is in deep depression right now I do care about her so much and I realized she needs time to get through this. I am not sure if she is saying its over and I am not interested in you anymore? Is she trying to say she needs time and space? I dont want she is saying but it does sound like she is depressed. She blocked my number and messenger on fb. Just don’t know what to do. I am back and forth with this part of me says she is gone and wants nothing to do with me and I believe if that’s the case she would be clear and tell me and then I feel like she does like me and does want to go out but she just needs time and space. I have jumped to conclusions and have been pushing her send her messages but I have stopped now and letting her be. I am not giving up on her and standing by her through her darkest days. I dont know what to do for her since she has stonewalled me.
thank you for sharing with us this information we a glade that you share with us
Hi Dr. Lisa, I have just recently found your podcast, and I am making my way through all your incredible advise. I came across your communication problems podcasts and I was excited to listen to them. You see.. I am the partner that withdraws. My husband and I have been married for 20 years this past October. I am not the best communicator, and I know that. I have been working on it all our married life. My husband is a huge communicator especially since his first marriage failed due to communication. He works really hard at trying to get me to communicate. As our life progressed, things started getting a little better. I don’t break down into hysteria at every argument we have, nor do I run and hide in the bathroom afterwards. I continue to work on communicating. I am much better at controlling my emotions during the argument (only crying a little instead of sobbing), and I can usually calm myself down after I have some alone time. I try hard to stay put, in the same room. I may not say anything per se, but I am not “running away”, although my husband sees it as me not being supportive. My biggest problem is that I just don’t ever know what to say. He used to tell me that all I needed to do was start the conversation. Just say, hey, can we talk , and he would take it from there. Well that has stopped and now he expects me to carry on the conversation. Don’t get me wrong, he has a right to expect that from me, but I just honestly don’t know how. I can usually muster up the courage to approach him and ask if we can talk, I usually say what I have rehearsed in my mind 50 times prior to approaching him, (it never comes out the way I rehearsed) then I sort of shut down. I don’t know where to go from there. I love my husband and I know he loves me and I know deep down that he wants our relationship to work out or he wouldn’t be here working so hard at it. But if I were being honest, I wake up almost every morning wondering if today is the day that he gets sick of the lack of communication and he decides to end it. And I know that it will be no one’s fault but my own. I would love it if you could record a podcast to help all of us that withdraw out there learn how not to. Or, if you have one already recorded, please direct me to it. I probably haven’t gotten to it yet, I still have a few years of recordings to listen to. Thanks for taking the time to read this. I appreciate it.
Hi Dr Lisa, I have been together with my husband for 28 years and I have been working on this issue for a very long time. I have done so much searching, been vulnerable, laid my feelings on the line. He is very withdrawn and disengaged emotionally. He is defensive whenever I bring it up and verbally abusive, calls me names and denies that he has done or said the thing that is hurting me. And he likes to say “what’s wrong now?” I couldn’t be any more sincere and gentle in my approach. It doesn’t matter. He still won’t acknowledge my feelings. He will cook and look like he’s doing things that he thinks will cool everything over, but he won’t go “there” with his feelings or acknowledge mine. We have two teenage children who he uses and says “go ask the kids”. I would never involve them. He has called me names and yelled at me in front of them. He told me a few years ago to “go jump off a bridge” and my daughter heard. That did a number on me. I told him the other day if he can’t speak nicely to me he should find other accommodations. So now he is being nice as I have stopped “annoying him” about anything that has upset me and he seems happy, even though inside I can’t stand it, but I am scared this is just a fake period and he will erupt again sometime down the track. He uses things that I have no idea would upset him. I think he is jealous of me and likes to take the power. I want to be equals. I am considering leaving as he will not seek help and I cannot see it ever changing. What do you think?
Susan, I can completely understand how you’d be feeling very frustrated with this relationship and wondering if it’s possible to save it. It’s actually really normal for people in relationships that have been very distressed for a long time to feel suspicious and mistrustful when their partners try to make positive changes. The core of this work (IF you want to work on the relationship) will be to ensure that you both have the skills and strategies you need to be better partners for each other, and not slide back into old patterns. You’re right, people who try on their own to make changes without really understanding what the problem was or how to fix it often backslide. Once those skills are solidly in place then you would likely benefit from doing some work around learning how to trust each other again. (Not in terms in infidelity, but trusting that you can be emotionally safe partners for each other). It’s a long road, for sure. I think I’m hearing in your question that you are looking for insight into whether it’s “fixable” or whether you should just leave. As an ethical marriage and family therapist and couples counselor, I can’t (and wouldn’t) tell you what is possible for this relationship. That work should be done with an experienced marriage counselor who 1) specializes in evidence-based marriage counseling and understands “discernment counseling” 2) can help you both determine what, specifically, needs to change in order for this to be a relationship worth keeping and then 3) allow both of you to determine if there’s still enough here for you to commit to investing the time, energy and resources into repairing this. Only you can decide, but you don’t have enough information yet. The discernment process can help you get clarity. I wish you all the very best, no matter which path you choose.
Hi Lisa,
Have just listened to your 3 part communication podcasts back to back and while I can find a lot to relate to my situation is a little different because myself and my boyfriend have only been together for 5 months, and it has always been really good, we have such a great time together when we are together however since he has been back at work following lockdown and able to see his friends for the first time in months I have felt like he hasnt found a balance to fit me in to his life anymore. We live quite far apart so we text a lot between meetings, so i text him saying I didnt feel there was a lot of urgency to see me since lockdown lifted, and although i appreciate he is taking on a lot of work at the moment and able to see his friends again, i just felt we needed to find a better balance for this to work/progress. Then asked him how he was feeling about it. I got a very angry text back, defensive and blaming me flr not making effort with him, he asked me to think about whether he was right for me as nothing he did was good enough. The angry messages continued for a day and i thought ibwpuld give him a couple of days space. I then text him asking if he cpuld just let me know where I stand, whether he wanted me to give him space or whether the relationship was over. I got a couple of angry responses back, and now it has been over a week with no form of communication from him whatso ever. I have contunued to message him onxe every 3 or 4 days, but havent had any responses at all, although he has read the messages. I miss him so much and I dont know if he is taking time out then wanting to approach me or if i will just never hear from him again, which is so hard. He is very sensitive and I really regret sending that first message, I’m hoping time will heal but I have no idea what is going through his mind.
I’m so sorry Leanne, I can understand how this would be really hurtful and confusing. I’m hearing that you would really like this relationship to work out. I’m also hearing that this person may be communicating (both with his words and his actions) that he might not feel the same way.
I know it’s so hard to take what I’m about to share with you on board when you really like someone, but it’s important to remember that dating is for the purpose of getting to know who someone is, how they operate, what you can expect from them, and whether or not they’ll make a good partner for you long term. I think I’m hearing that as you’ve gotten to know this guy better, you’re getting lots of valuable information that would suggest that what this person has to offer is not a good match for you. Knowing this five months in is a really a good thing. I know it doesn’t feel that way, but take it from a grizzled, veteran marriage counselor: You do NOT want to spend months, years or decades of your life with someone who treats you this way. The shadow of the hawk has flown over your life and passed on, and I’m glad. You deserve so much better than this.
For more motivation / clarity on why this breakup was such a good thing, you might check out some of my work around what happens when you get addicted to a toxic relationship, how to leave a toxic relationship with dignity, and more. (You can do a search on the bottom of the blog page on GrowingSelf.com for “toxic” or “breakup” and you’ll see all kinds of articles and podcasts that will help you.)
Wishing you all the best on your journey of growth and healing Leanne.
xo, LMB
Hi Dr.Lisa, I enjoyed hearing your podcast although I could only relate to being vulnerable to the other. I am in a long distance relationship since 7 months (almost 8 on the 25th) and my boyfriend has recently (i believe) emotionally withdrew from me. I had found suspicious evidence that he was cheating on me but I emotionally exploded on him saying that “I know that you are cheating on me”. We’ve always had communication problems and he would tell me he’s very forgetful but is very genuine in what he says (i believe so). The last message I received from him was him (a week ago) saying that, he felt attacked and that it hurts that I would think that. Before the incident we called and had confrontation and I asked if he was cheating on me, he said no and promised but I found it rather strange how he’s always on his phone (online on things, games, social media). The night he stopped replying to me I talked to his friends, and his mother (he had not replied to his mother’s calls and voicemails for a week after and they are VERY close). I had exploded on him for his lack of communication that lead to me think of him cheating. I begged him to tell me the truth and if he wanted to break up, but he had never said anything about ending it. He said that no matter what he felt like he’d come out as the bad guy and he “can’t take that right now”,and that was since last week, it got worse when both of his best friends tried to get him to talk to me too and he had ignored them as well. I’ve never cussed at him and I’ve been reaching out to him a lot in a vulnerable way but I really don’t know how long I can wait. I have hope and he has had past experiences shutting down from work (he is also stressed and overwhelmed with work). I don’t know what else to say or do but I know he is not the type to leave me without saying anything. I have hope but I just feel lost and confused sometimes, as if maybe he wants me to leave him so he’s not saying anything. I’ve talked to his Mom and she had said he’s responding a little bit more to her, he’s online playing games with his friends but my messages are still left unresponded. I was thinking that maybe he’s slowly getting back up and will talk to me soon. A friend of his tried to talk to him and he said that he was hurt that I don’t trust him and it’s also a part that he’s very forgetful. At nights like these I cannot help but cry and feel lost.
Alice thank you for reaching out and sharing your story with me, and the community of readers here on our blog. I can understand how this would be a very painful and confusing time. I thought that your situation was such a good example of one type of relationship that I often hear about, I addressed your questions on a recent episode of the Love, Happiness and Success Podcast: “Should We Breakup or Stay Together.” I don’t know if this was the perspective you were hoping for, but as a marriage counselor and therapist (as well as a life coach) it is my honest opinion.
I know that my perspective is only one, and you are the ultimate expert on what is right for you, but I hope my long-term view helps you decide where to go from here. If you do decide to break things off for good, you might consider checking out another recent podcast, “The Stages of a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart.” I hope that both of these help you find your way forward Alice — you’ve been through a lot, and you deserve peace and healing. All the best to you on your journey of growth. Lisa
Hi Dr. Lisa,
My moms name is actually Lisa too, and that’s why I feel more comfortable actually talking to you. So my problem has something to do with someone who has issues from their past and childhood and may be dealing with depression anxiety, and maybe some PTSD as well. We started dating and got together really fast and it was so great. We get along super well and when we were together it was great. He seemed to really care about me, and I feel like I showed it in return. Then one day, it suddenly changed and he became distant but I ignored it because I was so into him, and he broke up with me claiming he needed “space,” and “time.” Of course I cried and was angry with him and blamed him for everything. Two to three weeks later he wanted to talk in person, I was reluctant because I was angry and hurt by his actions, and I didn’t understand them. He told me that he’s scared to fall in love, and that he hates talking about his feelings. I told him okay let’s work on it together and try and make this work. Then the next day he ghosted me. I was even more hurt than before because I let him back in only to be crushed again. Keep in mind I have issues of my own with anxiety, and I have childhood trauma as well. However, there are things that I have accepted and gotten over that I don’t think he has because he refuses to open up to anyone not even his family. He’s tried therapy and it didn’t help either. So now let’s get to the current situation. We’re both in the military, and as I was working a duty one day he just randomly showed up and was working the same one. It was awkward and I felt so much anger and basically ignored him as much as I could. I couldn’t help but still look at him even though because you know I freaking fell in love with this guy. So my shift ends and I go home and receive a text. Every time the communication has started back up, it was always because of him and on his accord. He told me that he was sorry of course (he has said sorry a lot) and he also said he needs help and that he’s just scared. I told him I wanted to help him but that I can’t be hurt again. After that, we began talking again and things were nice and almost like how they were when we first started, but then he fell off again. He started to become distant and our conversations through texting and our hangouts became less and less. Then one day he just completely ignored me and read my message to hangout. I thought he was ghosting me again, but then he messaged me before it hit the week mark like nothing had even happened. So I of course was on the defense, and then accused him of not caring about me, which he then said he did. He came over last night and I attempted to talk to him about what’s been going on because he accepted it as normal. He hates talking about feelings and kept saying he doesn’t know, and I understand that he hates talking about them and is used to running away from love but I tried and tried. I asked him what he wanted to do from here, and he said that he doesn’t think either of us are ready for a relationship right now, and while I agree with that, at the same time I want to help him. I told him I was confused and he said he was too which was no help at all. I actually made him read a note that I wrote and it even said I loved him in there, he didn’t seem too worried about that though because he said it doesn’t change anything. So we solved our problem as usual with sex. It’s a vicious cycle that just keeps happening and hurts me to no end, and confuses me. I feel like he truly cares about me, but his wall prevents me from seeing him as him, there are things he opened up to me about in the beginning of the relationship that I know have hurt him deeply but I also think there is even more that I don’t know about, and I want him to be able to take his walk down in front of me. My friends hate him and think I should just end it, but it’s different when you’re in love. I want to help him I really do, and I know I’m not a therapist and I can’t make him get over his issues, but if I could just get him to talk about them, it would be so much easier. I’m at my limit here, I just want it to get better. Please if there is any help you could give at all, it would be very appreciated. Thank you.
Hi,
Your podcast has certainly helped me understand behavioural aspects of my partner.
It is extremely disturbing that he does not participate as much emotionally and withdraws after an argument.
Though we spoke after the argument and apologised but he is still disturbed.
It’s been over 10 days and I can see the reluctance to do the things we shared in our relationship. I find it hurtful as I miss his presence and loving nature. Now he prioritizes other things that earlier wouldn’t be….
Do let me know if I can get any form of advice or online consultation as this is the fourth time around. On earlier counts we had separated for a period of 3 months till he recovered. The last round lasted for a month ……where I had to leave as I couldn’t handle the way he was behaving around me. I felt more like an option…
My BF and I been together for 5 years and been on LDR for one month now. We had a fight last Monday that really made him upset. Up until now he refuses to talk to me nor respond to my phone calls. It has been a week now and I still haven’t heard anything from him. It’s really driving me crazy since this is the longest time we did not communicate for being together for 5 years plus the fact that we are miles away from each other. 🙁 and just this morning I tried to access his yahoo email and found out he’s checking out on Tinder since Wednesday. I know he’s just trying to divert his attention because we’re not on good terms but it hurts like hell. Why on earth should he sign up for Tinder without even trying to talk to me. Im feeling so hopeless now. I’m afraid he will no longer communicate and just decide to break up with me. All I want is him to talk to me and sort this out. How long should I wait? Or do I need to start moving on and forget him. 🙁
Hi Breanna, thanks for sharing your question. What you are describing is a very common situation — so common, I may just address this more deeply on an upcoming episode of the Love, Happiness and Success Podcast. (Stay tuned!) I cannot give you insight into what is going on with this person, but it’s pretty clear from your story that you have become attached to someone who 1) behaves hurtfully towards you 2) is not able to have a mature relationship 3) you cannot depend on and 4) is jerking you around at his leisure. Why is this okay with YOU?
Your pain is there for a reason. Like, if you put your hand down on a hot stove it would hurt because your body is telling you that you are in danger and you need to take action to protect yourself. This situation is creating pain for you, and I would encourage you to listen to that rather than continue twisting yourself into pretzels in efforts to rationalize your continued involvement with him. Because your situation sounds like a short-term version of this toxic relationship I wrote about.
So, rather than attempting to solve the mystery of his mental and emotional state — hoping that if you can somehow pick that lock and get him to talk, he’ll magically be a great partner for you — I wonder if a better use of your time would be to figure out what is happening with you? Addictions can take many forms, and can sneak up on you…. especially when they get confused with “Love.”
I’m not sure if my sharing my perspective helped you, or totally pissed you off, but there it is. I hope that you find peace, healing, and a fantastic relationship with someone who is able to be a good partner for you Breanna. You deserve that.
Candy, I’m really glad to hear that this podcast helped you understand the dynamics of your relationship in a new way. I think that you are wise to be thinking of marriage counseling or couples therapy in this situation. My hope for you is that he would learn ways to develop distress tolerance skills so that he could make it through a conversation with you without shutting down to such an extreme degree. It’s hard to sustain a relationship when that is happening!
If you’re shopping for a couples counselor, a great choice on our team is Jenna Peterson. She is especially good in helping people learn how to deal with big emotions in the context of their relationships. Or you can just look through our “About Us” page and find someone you’d like to schedule a free consultation session with. I am hopeful for you that with good couples counseling you and your partner will be able to communicate with each other, and create a strong, healthy relationship together. Best of luck to you! LMB
Remi: Refusing to talk to you or respond to your calls for over a week, and trolling on Tinder after a fight makes me think that it may be a blessing if he DOES break up with you. Consider the fact that he’s actually giving you a lot of information right now about his character, his level of emotional maturity, and his commitment to the relationship. Sometimes when people don’t talk, they actually share more honestly about themselves than when they do…. Listen to him, and act accordingly.
Which CBT online course would you suggest? I am the volitile type snd husband is the withdrawn type…I have gotten a lot better but keep trying to better myself! Thank for your amazing podcasts!!!
Raye
Hi, I enjoyed your podcast and listened to it as I thought I was the pursuer. My long term partner and I of four years have split up. When we first met I wouldn’t get involved with him for three months because he is ten years younger and I’d split with my previous partner ten months earlier. He was patient, didn’t push me and said he’d wait. When we did get involved though it went quite quick in terms of us declaring love etc and I voiced my fears about that to him. At first he opened up to me that he’d had his heart broken twice, how much it hurt him and his mum died when he was 16 and that had a huge effect, but when I tried to delve deeper as we got to know each other he wouldn’t open up further. He’d just say he didn’t like talking about it and I felt as though we couldn’t get that deeper emotional connection. Within our relationship he was very thoughtful. He’s a tough guy outside with a soft interior. He’d surprise me with cinema tickets for films he may not like but he knew I would and he’d send me lovely pictures and quotes declaring his love. As time went on though he got more and more selfish. At first we’d go out to eat occasionally (not expensive meals just the local pub) we’d go for walks and swimming and days out, odd weekend away but over time he was less and less willing to do this unless we were with his family or his friends. If we did go he’d quite often ( not always) be quiet and it felt to me like he didn’t really want to be there. If his family or friends were there he was totally different. I never criticised him for this but I did raise it and he said he didn’t really enjoy those things and then when I said but you seem happy when you family and friends are there, he’d say I don’t enjoy it then either I just pretend to. That made me feel why could he put an effort in with them and not me but I never said that directly to him. On occasions I tried to raise issues (which I did in a nice calm way not getting at him) he’d explode ranting and raving and then he’d disappear and ignore me. When I eventually took a stand against this (refusing to just give in and carry on as though all was ok when he said sorry – still without being prepared to listen to how he made me feel when he did that) we didn’t talk for days and he ended up saying he’d go as he’d had enough and he couldn’t make me happy anyway. I told him I loved him and asked him not to leave but he wasn’t having it until I said ok then go and then he said no he loved me etc. Since then I’ve felt unable to really raise issues, I’ve kept them inside and it got to the point where I was reluctant to ask him to go out for tea as I felt guilty as if I was bothering him somehow and I didn’t want to see the look on his face like I’d asked him to climb Everest. So we then mainly stayed in most weekends watching tv which was fine for some weekends but not every weekend. If we went anywhere it was his family, his friends (sometimes mine). Through all this we got on really well and I loved him so much as a person because despite his selfishness he was very thoughtful in some ways, loving and kind and I was happy on the surface but inside I felt as though what I wanted didn’t matter. Like he’d done things in the beginning and now he’d “got me” no longer needed to. I tried doing things on my own and that was ok. Over time I started going out with friends more and my sons and I did meditation classes n stuff but still no more willingness from him to take me out. It got to stage where I was so frustrated when he said he didn’t want to go to a colleagues wedding reception with me but would if he really had to (it was his face like it would be torture to him) I shut down. It was deliberate on my part. I started staying in with him at weekends but just sat there not talking, being miserable. This was the last eight weeks of relationship. Through all this we’d had problems with my youngest son taking drugs. My partner was very supportive to me through all this and helped me to be firm with my son and stick to boundaries but couid sometimes be critical if I tried a more understanding approach with my son. Not in a bad way but sometimes I felt he was a bit hypocritical as he’d do stuff for his daughters like lending them money he didn’t always have (I didn’t have much money to lend my son) but then if I did give him the odd thing (when I thought he was trying to change) he’d comment on it if my son then went off the rails again. He also grabbed my son by the throat and threw him out on one occasion when my son was being verbally abusuve to me. Yet on the occasions he blew up (which wasn’t often) he’d call me names such as crazy and bitch in front of my son. He apologises afterwards but that doesn’t just make it right. We went in holiday in Europe in August as that’s one thing we both like and he’d said I know we’ve not been getting on as well I think a hol would do us good and it was good but he blew up on me on the last day because I’d not got him a coffee at breakfast as usual, he just said sarcastically thanks for my coffee and I said I’m sorry I didn’t think, I thought you were getting your own (which I did as the restaurant was emptier than usual and I was tired and a bit distracted) he looked angry so I frowned at him at which he blew up in the restaurant said look at your face you’re crazy really loud. I was upset and started crying. When he came back to the table I said to him I’ve had enough of this when we get back you can get your stuff and go. He stormed off sulked in the room all day refused to go on the boat trip we’d booked, even though I said come on let’s just go, so I went to the pool on my own came back after an hour asked him to go out again he refused saying we’re not together. At this point I told him I’d shut down yes because all I got from him lately was rejection, disgust and contempt to which he replied you haven’t got a clue (meaning he loves me ??? ) when I said what do you mean by that he got angry refused to discuss it and when pressed by me to tell me got angrier said you’re winding me up now so I shut up and went out again. He’d said to me I can’t believe you told me to leave, have a go back yes but that! You must have thought about it and you’ve not even apologised. I didn’t apologise as I’d meant it when I said it and felt we needed a proper talk but daren’t try because of his temper. He wouldn’t go out all night and ruined the last day of hol completely. I apologised the next day saying I shouldn’t have said that – just to get him to talk to me. Anyway I tried to talk to him about never going out anywhere in November but I’d been shut off so long I wasn’t emotionally in a place to do it properly and I got upset and he got angry and it wasn’t resolved. I wanted him to say I love you let’s see if we can compromise but he didn’t he said I think it’s run it’s course, but I think he does that it’s part of him not opening up as he then said what do you think do you think we can fix it ? and I was so upset instead of saying yes I do etc I just said I don’t know what do you think ? To which he replied do you want me to keep doing things I don’t want to do and I just said no instead of saying no but that’s what you’re expecting, can’t we compromise as I just feel I can’t. I don’t know if it’s because he gets angry as he did at one point in that discussion. Anyway after that it was a bit better but I still felt it wasn’t resolved it ended a few weeks later after he had a row with my son when he came home very drunk one day. My partner had had a drink in the house but wasn’t drunk and I’d been out for an hour with a friend and I’d had a drink. I was in kitchen making pizza for us all and they started bantering about football. They support opposite teams and it got nasty. He’s never had cross words with him in four years apart from the one incident when he intervened as above. It ended with him slapping my son as my son wouldn’t shut up he went on and on and on and my son told him he treats me like shit never takes me out he said it was my son made me like this. Then my son said he was boring and swore at him and told him to go. He packed his stuff that night. I told my son to go to his dads which he did and I asked my partner not to go but he said he wasn’t putting up with that. The next day I asked him to talk but he wouldn’t he said don’t try and persuade him to stay as nothing I couid say couid change his mind there was no way back after that night. He said he felt there was something odd about my reaction and it was odd how my son had said that a few weeks after I’d raised it. Both my sons have noticed he won’t go out. He lays on settee all day from morning to bed time all weekend and they knew I wasn’t happy. He then said I can’t put up with that I’ll end up killing him and that’s not good is it, and then he said I told you I’d had enough last week didn’t I to which I nodded. I said to him I’m not going to try and persuade you to stay I think you should go after last night (but I didn’t mean permanently I felt we needed space) I then said don’t go like this come in and let’s talk and he said it had to end some day didn’t it, somehow why not like this and he went. When I thought about it after I wondered if he’d felt a bit betrayed because of my son saying what he did and the timing. I left it a few hours and text him telling him I loved him and why but I’d felt unimportant and unloved for a while. He replied sorry it had to end like this take care. His family are lovely and his sister phoned me a few days later when she found out. I told her what had happened and she said leave him a bit give him time he’ll come round and I said you don’t know what’s been happening though and she said he’d said same thing. He’d also mentioned whether age difference might be to do with it which really upset me as that was one reason I held off in beginning and he assured me it wasn’t an issue he never thought about it. I felt as though he was using that as an excuse to avoid his part in it all. After a couple of weeks I text him again as I wanted to make it clear to him that although I didn’t know exact reason he’d gone as he wouldn’t talk, I’d tried to put myself in his shoes and maybe he felt betrayed as though I’d wanted him to go all along and maybe felt rejected as if he couldn’t make me happy I acknowledged I’d shut off and blamed myself because I shouldn’t have I should have talked to him sooner instead of letting it get so we were less affectionate, loving, less sex etc and both so emotionally unable to deal with the issue when I raised it. I also said he’d not raised it either though so I couldn’t just blame myself and I wanted to let him know I didn’t think it was necessarily over and time and a good talk might sort it. I also said my son would apologise to him. He replied after three days. Said sorry for taking so long to reply but he’d been thinking a lot and still thinks it’s right decision to split maybe I’m right maybe we should have addressed issues earlier but we didn’t and it had gone too far, all things. It’s hard to get back to how it was when it gets that bad and personally he doesn’t think it can be fixed now but he might feel different in time but he doesn’t at minute, sorry. I replied next day saying I felt he was right it’s right to split but for different reasons. He’s gone and that sound be reason enough for me but I did think we needed time apart so ? I also said I thought we could heal our relationship and him and my son’s now I’ve spoke to my son but he had to want it too and doesn’t now, if ever and I can’t change his mind and wouldn’t try to and I have to respect his decision. I mentioned the keys to house which he’d got and said meet me in new year to hand them over when less raw. Say a proper goodbye (I didn’t really mean that I meant to talk but that’s text for you)!or he couid drop them at his sisters. He took keys to his sisters. I’ve been to his sisters at her invite since. She said he stayed in at new year and showed me a video of Christmas Day. He looked wretched. We didn’t discuss my partner much I didn’t feel I wanted to and kept conversation about other stuff as we ate a meal, but as I left she asked about my son and we talked about my partner a bit. She said his mum treated him like golden boy and he couid do no wrong and it hit him hard when she died. She said that and him getting away with stuff had just had some effect on him. She said he’d always been selfish and when I said he can be lovely though can’t he she agreed and said yes he can he can be really thoughtful and then she said She loves him dearly but I’m better off without him. I thought I was the pursuer but I’m the end maybe I wasn’t maybe he was as he was trying a bit and I kept pushing him away. A few weeks before I had talk with him we’d slept together after a long gap (I always had to initiate that too) and he’d suggested a day out to something I’d mentioned and I just brushed it off because I knew I wanted to bring up the issue of not going out and if I went I knew if I then brought it up he’d say we’ve been out -and then it’d go back to how it was before. I brought up the not going out the next day. Anyway now I feel as though he’s heartbroken- his sister agreed I said to her he didn’t look happy on that video and she said I know she doesn’t get it any more than I do but I know she’s not been in the relationship so it’s hard to explain. Now I’m confused. I really miss him so much as he is a lovely person in so many ways, never a bad word about anyone, funny, kind, genuine but he has another side that if he came back it would need to be different – I’m heartbroken and miss him and I hate to think he’s upset too and yet he’s gone and I’ve bit heard from him since last text. I don’t know if I ended the relationship or he did. I think if I’d begged him to stay he might have but I couldn’t and shouldn’t have to. Some days I think just let him go he’s not prepared to work on it and you deserve better then I swing to but you weren’t nice to him for weeks then I think there’s times he wasn’t nice to you too. Then I’m heartbroken again feeling I’ve lost him because I’ve not dealt with things in right way but at same time I don’t know if he’d be willing to change and go out more and compromise and talk about issues. Then I wonder if he only stopped doing that because I shut off but then I think he was like that when we were good but a bit more willing to do stuff. I know this is very long but one more thing. I feel in my gut that he’s scared to commit. When we were good there’d be times he’d be dismissive or even not answer me when I commented on something- it couid be a daft comment about a tv programme. He also feels everyone he loves leaves him and I wonder if fear of rejection is driving this on his part and maybe mine too. I’m just trying to make sense of it all I couid go on but I’ll leave it there. Thank you for letting me vent on here.
Thank you for sharing your story with our community Mandi. I am glad this feels like a safe space for you to “vent.”
Hello Dr Lisa, I am having some issues with a woman I have met online. We have been talking for 3 weeks of and on. A few weekends ago she found out her bestfriend hung himself and left two kids and a wife behind my friend was devastated she basically shutdown in withdrawn herself and wouldnt speak to me for three days. We started talking again for a couple days she promised when things settle down we will go out on a date. She said to me that it’s hard for her to get close to anyone because of what she has been through in the past marriages and relationships. I told her she shouldn’t be scared if she finds a decent man who would really care about her and she says that I am a kind decent man. Anyways she went to the funeral the next weekend and then she completely pushed me away havent talked in almost 3 weeks now except for one time and she said this “I love the flowers Jonathan but I am not a good person. I will never be good enough for you. You’re a great man and you deserve someone who is 100 times better than me. I am very flattered and I appreciate your infatuation with me but I realized I am just so damaged. I won’t be good for anyone ever”. She said she has anxiety and depression and I think she is in deep depression right now I do care about her so much and I realized she needs time to get through this. I am not sure if she is saying its over and I am not interested in you anymore? Is she trying to say she needs time and space? I dont want she is saying but it does sound like she is depressed. She blocked my number and messenger on fb. Just don’t know what to do. I am back and forth with this part of me says she is gone and wants nothing to do with me and I believe if that’s the case she would be clear and tell me and then I feel like she does like me and does want to go out but she just needs time and space. I have jumped to conclusions and have been pushing her send her messages but I have stopped now and letting her be. I am not giving up on her and standing by her through her darkest days. I dont know what to do for her since she has stonewalled me.
Hi Raye, you can certainly take our Happiness Class for a good, all purpose online course that walks you how to use the principles of CBT. However, in my experience, these patterns can be challenging to shift without support. The reason why is that, funnily enough, even when you start making changes in the way you behave towards your partner they might still react the same old way to you at first. It’s like people get so used to their partner being one way that it almost confuses them at first, and they don’t know how to respond differently yet. This is why it can be so hard to change the dynamics of a relationship. (Which makes you want to snap right back into your old patterns too). This is one of the reasons why couples struggle to make changes on their own. So, LSS, this is where a great couples counselor steps in: Meeting with someone who can coach you in the moment around how to react differently to each other, think differently about what the other person is saying, etc, can basically knock your relationship out of that old rut and into a genuinely new level. I think it’s fantastic that you’re looking for how to change your thoughts but if you’re serious about changing this dynamic I hope that you get the support of a competent marriage counselor too. Sincerely, Lisa Marie Bobby
thank you for sharing with us this information we a glade that you share with us
Hi Dr. Lisa, I have just recently found your podcast, and I am making my way through all your incredible advise. I came across your communication problems podcasts and I was excited to listen to them. You see.. I am the partner that withdraws. My husband and I have been married for 20 years this past October. I am not the best communicator, and I know that. I have been working on it all our married life. My husband is a huge communicator especially since his first marriage failed due to communication. He works really hard at trying to get me to communicate. As our life progressed, things started getting a little better. I don’t break down into hysteria at every argument we have, nor do I run and hide in the bathroom afterwards. I continue to work on communicating. I am much better at controlling my emotions during the argument (only crying a little instead of sobbing), and I can usually calm myself down after I have some alone time. I try hard to stay put, in the same room. I may not say anything per se, but I am not “running away”, although my husband sees it as me not being supportive. My biggest problem is that I just don’t ever know what to say. He used to tell me that all I needed to do was start the conversation. Just say, hey, can we talk , and he would take it from there. Well that has stopped and now he expects me to carry on the conversation. Don’t get me wrong, he has a right to expect that from me, but I just honestly don’t know how. I can usually muster up the courage to approach him and ask if we can talk, I usually say what I have rehearsed in my mind 50 times prior to approaching him, (it never comes out the way I rehearsed) then I sort of shut down. I don’t know where to go from there. I love my husband and I know he loves me and I know deep down that he wants our relationship to work out or he wouldn’t be here working so hard at it. But if I were being honest, I wake up almost every morning wondering if today is the day that he gets sick of the lack of communication and he decides to end it. And I know that it will be no one’s fault but my own. I would love it if you could record a podcast to help all of us that withdraw out there learn how not to. Or, if you have one already recorded, please direct me to it. I probably haven’t gotten to it yet, I still have a few years of recordings to listen to. Thanks for taking the time to read this. I appreciate it.
Hey Raye-Leigh, can I ask you how you deal with a volatile/withdrawn relationship? I am volatile and my boyfriend is more avoidant and it really worries me that this is going to be a big future problem in our relationship.
Hi Dr. Lisa,
This episode was extremely informational! How would you recommend applying these ideas when you are in a long distance relationship and your partner has withdrawn because they are grieving the loss of someone? I found myself nagging them for the first time not too long ago, and that resulted in them blowing up and withdrawing further. I’d appreciate any thoughts you can share!
Hi Dr Lisa, I have been together with my husband for 28 years and I have been working on this issue for a very long time. I have done so much searching, been vulnerable, laid my feelings on the line. He is very withdrawn and disengaged emotionally. He is defensive whenever I bring it up and verbally abusive, calls me names and denies that he has done or said the thing that is hurting me. And he likes to say “what’s wrong now?” I couldn’t be any more sincere and gentle in my approach. It doesn’t matter. He still won’t acknowledge my feelings. He will cook and look like he’s doing things that he thinks will cool everything over, but he won’t go “there” with his feelings or acknowledge mine. We have two teenage children who he uses and says “go ask the kids”. I would never involve them. He has called me names and yelled at me in front of them. He told me a few years ago to “go jump off a bridge” and my daughter heard. That did a number on me. I told him the other day if he can’t speak nicely to me he should find other accommodations. So now he is being nice as I have stopped “annoying him” about anything that has upset me and he seems happy, even though inside I can’t stand it, but I am scared this is just a fake period and he will erupt again sometime down the track. He uses things that I have no idea would upset him. I think he is jealous of me and likes to take the power. I want to be equals. I am considering leaving as he will not seek help and I cannot see it ever changing. What do you think?
P.S he was in the military & was in iraq war…i do believe he suffered an extent of ptsd as he hated hearing fireworks but loved hunting hmmmm. He came back from war to find his very controlling, had to walk on eggshells, manipulative 1st wife was having an affair. We became neighbors while both going thru divorce but didn’t start interacting till abt a yr.. just incase any of that matters lol thanks
Susan, I can completely understand how you’d be feeling very frustrated with this relationship and wondering if it’s possible to save it. It’s actually really normal for people in relationships that have been very distressed for a long time to feel suspicious and mistrustful when their partners try to make positive changes. The core of this work (IF you want to work on the relationship) will be to ensure that you both have the skills and strategies you need to be better partners for each other, and not slide back into old patterns. You’re right, people who try on their own to make changes without really understanding what the problem was or how to fix it often backslide. Once those skills are solidly in place then you would likely benefit from doing some work around learning how to trust each other again. (Not in terms in infidelity, but trusting that you can be emotionally safe partners for each other). It’s a long road, for sure. I think I’m hearing in your question that you are looking for insight into whether it’s “fixable” or whether you should just leave. As an ethical marriage and family therapist and couples counselor, I can’t (and wouldn’t) tell you what is possible for this relationship. That work should be done with an experienced marriage counselor who 1) specializes in evidence-based marriage counseling and understands “discernment counseling” 2) can help you both determine what, specifically, needs to change in order for this to be a relationship worth keeping and then 3) allow both of you to determine if there’s still enough here for you to commit to investing the time, energy and resources into repairing this. Only you can decide, but you don’t have enough information yet. The discernment process can help you get clarity. I wish you all the very best, no matter which path you choose.
Hi Lisa,
Have just listened to your 3 part communication podcasts back to back and while I can find a lot to relate to my situation is a little different because myself and my boyfriend have only been together for 5 months, and it has always been really good, we have such a great time together when we are together however since he has been back at work following lockdown and able to see his friends for the first time in months I have felt like he hasnt found a balance to fit me in to his life anymore. We live quite far apart so we text a lot between meetings, so i text him saying I didnt feel there was a lot of urgency to see me since lockdown lifted, and although i appreciate he is taking on a lot of work at the moment and able to see his friends again, i just felt we needed to find a better balance for this to work/progress. Then asked him how he was feeling about it. I got a very angry text back, defensive and blaming me flr not making effort with him, he asked me to think about whether he was right for me as nothing he did was good enough. The angry messages continued for a day and i thought ibwpuld give him a couple of days space. I then text him asking if he cpuld just let me know where I stand, whether he wanted me to give him space or whether the relationship was over. I got a couple of angry responses back, and now it has been over a week with no form of communication from him whatso ever. I have contunued to message him onxe every 3 or 4 days, but havent had any responses at all, although he has read the messages. I miss him so much and I dont know if he is taking time out then wanting to approach me or if i will just never hear from him again, which is so hard. He is very sensitive and I really regret sending that first message, I’m hoping time will heal but I have no idea what is going through his mind.
I’m so sorry Leanne, I can understand how this would be really hurtful and confusing. I’m hearing that you would really like this relationship to work out. I’m also hearing that this person may be communicating (both with his words and his actions) that he might not feel the same way.
I know it’s so hard to take what I’m about to share with you on board when you really like someone, but it’s important to remember that dating is for the purpose of getting to know who someone is, how they operate, what you can expect from them, and whether or not they’ll make a good partner for you long term. I think I’m hearing that as you’ve gotten to know this guy better, you’re getting lots of valuable information that would suggest that what this person has to offer is not a good match for you. Knowing this five months in is a really a good thing. I know it doesn’t feel that way, but take it from a grizzled, veteran marriage counselor: You do NOT want to spend months, years or decades of your life with someone who treats you this way. The shadow of the hawk has flown over your life and passed on, and I’m glad. You deserve so much better than this.
For more motivation / clarity on why this breakup was such a good thing, you might check out some of my work around what happens when you get addicted to a toxic relationship, how to leave a toxic relationship with dignity, and more. (You can do a search on the bottom of the blog page on GrowingSelf.com for “toxic” or “breakup” and you’ll see all kinds of articles and podcasts that will help you.)
Wishing you all the best on your journey of growth and healing Leanne.
xo, LMB
Hi Lisa, been listening to your podcast and it has been very refreshing to hear that I may somehow still have control of what’s left of our marriage.
It is such a convoluted mess where we have both destroyed each other over the last year. To touch the surface I pushed for an open marriage and pushed boundaries and he took solace with my best friend who lives across the road. We have torn chunks out of each other. I have learnt a massive lesson for our future and diagnosed Bipolar after struggling for many yrs unoticed. But 3 months ago he commenced a stone wall as we were arguing all the time and I proceeded to point out all the things he needed to change and I feel like he has given up on us. We live together, the house is up for sale and I’m scared we are on the edge
These podcasts were so helpful! Thank you for explaining everything clearly and giving good tools to break the cycle!
I was in a long distance relationship for almost 4 years. After a a year he visited me because I was not able to. I didn’t not have a traveling Visa at the time. After the first year he was in an accident and was not able to work, he used to tell me what was happening as he was in court with the company he worked with. He was being paid half of the money he used to get for his salary and then it was cut in two. He was going through a difficult time and had problems taking care of himself in every way. I was frustrated and didn’t know what to do. He stopped talking to me about what was happening and became withdrawn. Being so far away and unable to help him and not hearing from him became more than I could bear. I tried everything including nagging which I hated doing but that was the only time he would react to me. I eventually told him that it was over and 3 months later he came visiting. I tried talking to him about us moving on or making plans to work things out but he was none responsive. He eventually return home and 7 months later told me he was unable to manage a relationship because his self esteem was low. 6 months later I found out that while he was visiting me he saw his sister in law’s boss and connected with her on FB. They started an emotional relationship and 2 weeks after breaking up with he she went to meet him, they continued in a relationship for 3 years and during that time I was able to get a Visa. His new girlfriend took me as a laughing stock and make sure I was aware of how happy she was. We did not communicate for a year after I found out that he lied about not being able to manage a relationship. He called after a year to apologize for the way he treated me and explained that he needed someone to be there for him and she was able to visit. Whenever they were having problem he would call wanting me to give him another chance and saying that he knows that the relationship between them won’t work but she wouldn’t accept it. He wanted to move on with me because he didn’t have any problems with me and didn’t want to start over with a new person. I had no interest and told him that even if I would consider he would have to spend time to get over that relationship. It has been 2 years since they broke up and he started pursuing me again. I eventually gave in to him and spent a week at his home. This was the first time we were spending so much time together even when we were in the relationship for 3 plus years. Everything was ok until I I left his home. I am still in his country. He only respond to me when I initiate conversations. We did not talk about where we were headed in terms of relationship but he told his family back home that I was spending time with him. I didn’t have any expectations as it relates to continuing where we left off but I thought that we would at least be having conversations. He is overwhelmed with family issues back home but I don’t think that it should be an excuse not to communicate. I had planned on visiting him before going home and he seems to expect me to but he is not being encouraging. I don’t want to accept this type of treatment as the norm .
Hello! I hope you can help
My boyfriend has hit a stage of depression and seems very indecisive. We are in a LDR of 2 years and he’s hit depression for a few months now. We’ve seen eachother since and he was up and down with me but mostly up. Recently he’s always stressed and angry from work and usually we start the day off fine but by the end of the night when he gets tired he’s easily angry and tells me “I deserve better” and “should leave” but talks about marriage or living together all the time
In response I told him “the more you tell me to leave the more It feels like you want me to and that I should. I don’t want to breakup but you’ve said it daily now for the last couple of weeks” and his response was fear and for me not to leave, which I didnt .
However lately I’ve tried to create some space to keep my mental health up , but whenever I take time to myself he seems upset that I’m gone but expresses it through anger instead of just telling me he wants me around. Even when he’s fearful.
I try and be civil and help him through this time but I feel like we lack intimacy, communication, and our libido together is non existent (I want to but he doesnt). Hes always in
negative self talk, whether it’s “I’m a bad boyfriend” “I’m bad at this game (video games)” “I’m abusive” etc. and I’ve told him to followup with his doctor but he wont as it “didn’t help in the past”.
What can I do? I don’t want to let go. But he doesn’t seem to want to help himself. We had a break last year because he was worried of taking it out on me and we came back stronger then ever but since his depression creeped around this has been happening or he will go quiet on our phone calls and even leave (but then come back immediately) out of nowhere when he’s angry or upset. And since we’ve taken a break before, he does think breaking up would be for good. And despite all this, I trust he wants a future with me as we are working towards it daily.
Hi Selena, I hear how much you care for him, and how worried you are for him – and your relationship. Sometimes, the best support we can give to a loved one who’s struggling is to set boundaries with them from a place of concern. This looks like letting him know how much you care and how much his depression, irritability, and low self-esteem is hurting, not only him, but also you and the relationship – and then stating that you need him to get help for it, as soon as possible. If he isn’t ready to revisit a doctor and explore what might work better this time, he might consider meeting with a therapist. Here is a link, if you’re open to sharing it with him. Sometimes, when we we aren’t willing to help ourselves, doing it for those we love can be our motivation. I hope this is helpful, Dr. Lisa
Hi, it sounds like you’ve put a lot into this relationship over the years. And that you know this isn’t the kind of treatment, or relationship, you want. It just so happens I have a podcast episode “Long Distance Relationship Breakup” that might help you answer the question “should I move on?” Warmly, Dr. Lisa
Amie, I’m so glad to know that the perspective I shared in this podcast was helpful to you. I do agree though, it sounds like there has been a lot of damage done in this relationship and that a “healing and repair process” will be necessary to rebuild the trust and good will between you. This is a process that will occur over time, through working with a qualified marriage and family therapist. I would recommend finding one who is trainined in either Emotionally Focused Couples Therapy (which is focused on healing attachment bonds), or an MFT with training in the Gottman Method (focused on rebuilding the foundation/friendship of your relationship).
But you absolutely need to get into couples counseling, and please don’t work with a therapist who is not an MFT. Most therapists practicing couples counseling are not licensed marriage and family therapists, and it makes a huge difference in outcomes — especially in make-or-break moments like these. When you’re on the brink, you usually have one shot at repair. And if you wind up in the office with someone well-meaning, but who truly doesn’t even know what they don’t know about couples therapy, it’s easy to blow it. Please check out this article I wrote, “How to find a marriage counselor” for more information on how to avoid having a damaging experience in couples therapy rather than the positive and healing one that you both deserve. Hope this perspective helps you find your path forward. xo, Dr. Lisa