How Introverts Can Win at Work

Lisa Marie Bobby:

 Work meetings leave you feeling absolutely exhausted and have you ever thought that you would rather crawl out of your skin than attend a networking event? If so, chances are you may be an introvert, which can make doing some of the things one needs to do in order to have a successful career feel a little bit more challenging.

So on today’s podcast, we’re talking about how. introverts can win at the workplace and how you can actually leverage your introvert superpowers because yes, you have them in order to create a more satisfying and successful career path. Mood

music today features the band Modern Art. The song is Hello Goodbye, a little nod to that high goodbye you might get. From a card carrying introvert. My guest today is my colleague, Susan Henderson. Susan is a very experienced career counselor and coach who has helped a lot of people navigate this path and who, um, herself identifies as an introvert.

So she has a lot of insight into this topic. Um, and Susan, thank you so much for joining me today to help our introvert friends. Yes. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. So, well, this is important because, you know, I mean, it needs to be discussed that in so many real ways, our whole culture is really designed for extroverts to shine.

Yes. Right? There are expectations, particularly when it comes to some of the, the career things. Have you found that to be true that an extroverted way of being tends to be privileged over the kind of quiet way that introverts have? I think you’re 100 percent correct. I think the world is definitely built for extroverts and it can be difficult as an introvert to kind of navigate that and figure out how to work in the world full of extroverts.

Totally. Well, I mean, what, what are some of the differences that you see? And if it’s okay, I mean, feel free to share some of your own personal experiences, if this has ever come up for you. And I’m happy to talk about some of my own, because believe it or not, like when I take personality assessments, I’m actually right in the middle.

Like I can, I can turn it on and talk to people and it’s fine. But I think at my core, I have some introverted tendencies. that I actually recharge from being alone, go through periods where I really like, actually don’t want to talk to people. So, um, we, we can go into all of these nooks and crannies, but, but I’m, I’m wondering if you could share what you see about some of the big, um, differences when it comes to working styles, but also, you know, What makes being an introvert challenging when it comes to career?

Well, I think you hit the nail on the head by saying that you have to kind of be alone to recharge, right? Like extroverts tend to recharge when they’re in groups of people and social interactions, whereas introverts tend to. Tend to need to be alone to recharge. And I think a lot of people assume introverts aren’t social or, um, aren’t talkative or things like that, but really it’s just that they need more time alone to recharge, to be in those social situations.

So, um, I think too, with introverts, um, a lot of the times they need more time to like process and think through topics and that can be really difficult at work, especially in meetings. If you’re expected to speak up, um, have a voice, introverts tend to want to think things through, um, before speaking up and even don’t feel the need to speak up if they don’t have something of value to add to the conversation, which is.

Very different from maybe an extrovert’s way where they are more comfortable kind of just jumping in and throwing around ideas. Um, an introvert kind of needs that time to process and think and spend some time alone independently to feel recharged at work. Yeah, got it. Um, I would. Also, imagine that some career paths or vocations are then therefore more challenging than others.

Have you found that to be true? Because no, really. I mean, like there are some situations that require people to be fast, talking to people all day long and, you know, contributing at meetings, but not, not all. I mean, what do you see? Yeah. Yeah. I think there are some jobs like sales, probably a hard job for introverts.

I think office jobs can be difficult because if you’re in an office surrounded by people all day, um, in meetings a lot around people that can be difficult. I always ask my clients to think about like, remote work now. And that’s kind of one of the benefits that came out of the pandemic is more places are offering that ability to be remote or ability to be hybrid.

And I think that can help a lot of introverts to have that time alone to really dig in and get things done and stay focused while also still having the benefit of. Being in an office, being around people, making those social connections, um, it’s just not so every day, five days a week, eight hours a day in your face.

Yeah, definitely. Um, well, and so, okay, and this is just something that I’m curious about. So. You know, it’s kind of weird because being, being a therapist, counselor, coach, a lot of times we are literally talking to people all day long, but this is an occupation that I think attracts a lot of introverts and it can be like very quiet.

You know, and, and I guess I’m curious to know if, if it’s okay to ask, like in your own life experience, because I know that you went through some transitions and that’s, I think why you’re such a powerful career counselor and career coach, because you have so much natural empathy for people who have, you know, started one career and then, um, As as one does actually get in there and begin doing it and think, Oh, I don’t know how much I like this.

Actually, maybe I want to do something different and kind of doing that, you know, like quarter life crisis or even later, like course correction. Um, I can’t help but be curious to know if that was part of your process was related to that introversion, extraversion index. Yeah, I think absolutely. I think it’s something I thought a lot about, too, before going into this line of work, knowing that I’m an introvert, knowing that I like time alone to kind of recharge and knowing that in this job, I’m going to be talking to people all day.

Yeah, and I think 1 of the biggest differences in this work that really makes. Um, makes it a good fit is that I think introverts really struggle with like small talk and, uh, you know, with the networking and having to kind of create connections, whereas they’re better with more in depth conversations.

And that’s kind of what I do is have these in depth conversations with clients. And so it’s not just. Fluff of like, you know, just how’s the weather it’s more, um, and I think that helps me, um, feel more comfortable in this place as an introvert who has to talk a lot in this, but still kind of has those.

The benefit of those deeper conversations. And in this, I get to have time alone. I get to, you know, take breaks between sessions. I get to have time alone, writing my notes, whatever it is that I do. Um, and that helps a lot as well. So it definitely makes, it definitely was a consideration of mine before I went into this thinking like, as an introvert, like, Is this really going to work for me?

And I think I have found that balance and it does. Yeah. Well, and right now you’re really like exemplifying and modeling the process that I think especially introverts need to go through, which is first of all, Tapping into these introvert superpowers, one of which you just mentioned, which is really the fact that, um, we, we go deep, like when we do connect with people, it’s often at deep, like emotionally.

Intimate levels. And so harnessing that power, but also then doing some thinking about the, um, like environment of your vocation and how you could leverage some of that in order to meet your own needs. So like going into it with a lot. Of self awareness. Um, which I think is probably the process that everybody needs to do when they’re considering career paths.

Um, how it’s going to feel on that emotional level. Yeah. Yeah. I think environment is one thing that I try to bring up a lot in my sessions. It’s like, I want you to think about the environment you want to be in. Right. And that can include like, you know, office space versus at home versus like how much time are you going to get to spend alone versus how much time you’re going to be in meetings.

And that environment kind of makes, um, a big difference in how you succeed at work. I think. Right. Right, that the physical environment, I’m thinking to like the culture, you know, I would imagine that the culture of different organizations, some of them are probably more. Relational than others, but also, I mean, there’s some cultures that have this, um,

like, I can’t think of the right way to say it, but it’s what I associate with like a fraternity or a sorority or like a, you know, school like pep rally. There’s kind of this team spirit, rah, rah thing where there’s group activities and socialization and like, you know, get togethers and that, that, that there’s cultural pieces as well.

So to do your research. Yes, absolutely. I’ve definitely been a part of organizations that are very socially focused, not only in building relationships at work, but then building those relationships with your co workers outside of work with happy hours and team events and things like that. So it’s definitely something to consider.

Yeah. Well, on that note, I mean, you know, somebody who’s listening to this and considering. A chain, which we also need to talk, actually, you know what, let me just ask you this question first. Sure. What are some signs from your perspective for, you know, somebody listening to this who really has not been feeling good about what they’ve been doing?

What would you expect the experience to be for a introvert in a career that is really not a good match on that metric? Metric. What does that look like or feel like? I think it could probably look like a lot of different things, but paying attention to your work day, how you feel throughout, if you’re getting frustrated, if you’re struggling to focus, if, um, you’re feel like you’re not kind of fitting in.

Right. I think a lot of things can kind of clue you in. And I think, like you said earlier, it’s. It’s more about that self reflection and understanding, like what piece of this job or this career isn’t working for me and what, what is, and if the things that aren’t working for you are that, Oh, you have to network a ton, or you have to kind of, Constantly be in meetings or things like that.

I think just kind of evaluating and looking back on like, how do I have to spend my days? And what are my frustrations with my days? Like, yeah, what do I wish I had less of kind of seeing what those things are to kind of help you identify? Like, is this the rights? Position because you could be in a career that maybe you just need to change your position a little bit to one that’s a little less face to face or a front.

And I think too, it’s not to say that introverts don’t like being social or don’t like building relationships. Um, I think it’s more the volume, um, in the depth of those relationships that matter as well. And so understanding if it’s, everything’s going to be very surface level. Um, it might not be. A good fit, right?

Well, I mean, what you’re saying is that it really requires, um, some self exploration, you know, I think, I think that it is easy for all of us to have feelings that feel kind of monolithic. Like we come home and think, I don’t like my job or. My day felt really stressful, but don’t always have that introspection into the why.

And so what I’m hearing you say is that you need to peel that onion a little bit. So doing some journaling, working with an expert career counselor, such as yourself to, to really like help you crack into the core of what is it specifically that is actually making me feel unhappy or dissatisfied or drained to, to parse out Is it the work itself?

Is it the culture? Is it the environment? Um, cause that can be, that can be difficult without that exploration. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think journaling is one good way to kind of go about doing that and really thinking through, you know, what is it about this book? Place or this job that it is it working for me or is causing me to feel like I don’t want to be here anymore Right things like yeah, and also working.

Yes with a career expert somebody Can guide you through that exploration as well can be helpful Yeah, well, you know just I think one of the most poignant things for me about Introverts is because our culture really is so organized around the extrovert experience. Um, you know, I’m wondering if you could speak a little bit to the experience of introverts who maybe are in a vocation or a career that they really do enjoy and that is a good fit for them.

Um, And they are in a culture or an environment that is not a good fit for them in terms of that, like, you know, interacting with people and the expectations, but rather than just like feeling badly and thinking, Ooh, maybe, maybe I’m not in the right environment, what it can often turn into is like, what is wrong with me?

That everybody else is having a good time and you know, I’m, I’m getting negative feedback from my boss or from colleagues that are like, I’m not speaking up enough. I mean, can you speak into that experience a little bit when an introvert is that the narrative is these, my, my deficits that need to be corrected rather than, you know, the interpretation that maybe it’s that I’m not really playing to my strengths right now.

What do you see with that and like the outcomes of that? Yeah, I think that’s very frustrating for a lot of introverts to get that kind of feedback, feeling like I’m doing a good job. I’m doing, you know, what I came here to do. I even feel like maybe I’m going above and beyond, but because I don’t sit into these boxes that other people want me to fit into, that means I’m somehow lesser than them.

And that’s just not true. And I think it’s important to. Yeah, play to your strengths, um, but also even have conversations with the managers, the people in your team and kind of understanding like, this is how I work. This doesn’t mean that I’m not, um, committed or focused just because I’m not speaking up as much.

Yeah. Um, I think one thing that can be helpful too is if there’s lots of meetings, you know, if you can find out the topic beforehand, have some time to think and process, like you might be more prepared to contribute and asking your manager to consider that, um, letting your manager know, like, I work better when I’m kind of alone or focused.

It doesn’t mean I don’t want to be a part of the group. Um, it just means this is kind of where I know I work best. And I think encouraging more Um, team building, like on a smaller level, um, with the smaller groups of people can help too. Cause then you can get to know your coworkers and they can get to know you and kind of understand you and how you work without the pressure of this big social situation.

Um, right. Gatherings, um, you know, kind of connecting one on one with other colleagues can help them get to know you and see that it’s not that you’re quiet or some people can think, you know, you’re aloof, like not wanting to join, they can understand like, this is, I’m just quieter. I tend to do better in different situations and kind of gaining that understanding between your team.

It can be really helpful. No, I totally hear that. Um, but that, I mean, again, that requires a lot of self insight is to know yourself that this is going on. And then that self advocacy. So I think I’m also hearing that maybe this is could be the result of, of working through some of these things, particularly, I mean, like, this is the advantage of working with somebody like you, because you’re a, you’re a therapist.

Who specializes in career counseling and can be going into some of these, um, places that feel like they’re more, more personal because I mean, as, as somebody who partially identifies as introverted and as somebody who is married to an introvert, I can tell you for a fact that sometimes it is actually quiet and aloof and really does not want to talk or hang out.

with you. I actually do not want to go to this party. I do not want to go to this group. I do not want to do any of these things. And that it can, it can be disruptive to relationships. And so tell me about some of like the consequences that you see for introverts who are You know, don’t have this kind of self awareness yet, or who haven’t gone through this like self advocacy process yet.

Like, how did they begin to be perceived as the team or, or what are some of the negative consequences that can happen to them in terms of their opportunities or, um, trajectory of their career if they’re not managing these things? Right. I think, uh, you can. End up being overlooked for things like promotions, um, you have maybe less, um, upward mobility at work if you’re being viewed as, you know, quiet or aloof, not part of the group, um, you kind of limit yourself to, um, moving, moving up in your career and I think having those conversations.

It’s the only way or one of the only ways, the best way maybe to kind of work through that of letting managers know, like, this is where I see myself. This is what I want to do in my career and having those check ins and, and that’s something I talk about with my own clients. To is like, how do we have those conversations?

Like, you know, how do I explain myself to an extrovert? Who’s not going to just understand, you know, where I’m coming from. And, um, you know, I’ve had clients that were able to negotiate. A hundred percent in office jobs to having a couple of days remote a week because they were able to express themselves to their managers in a way that they’re like, Hey, like this is when I can really deep, get my work done, get focused if I’m kind of spending some of that time alone.

Yeah. And then I can also use my in person days to do the things that are more. Uh, social or require more contact with the team. Yeah. And so sometimes it’s more about like having that balance. Definitely. Saying like, oh, I only can do be alone all the time. It’s more about what’s that balance. Yes. Leave me alone.

I don’t want to have anything to do with anybody. Yeah. It’s more about finding that balance for you and seeing like, what does that look like? Understanding like how much of that can you take versus how much you need to like step away from. Yeah, totally. Well, even just, you know, the act of having that conversation I would think would also be a good, um, experiment, a test, if you will, to see, you know, is, is this, System responsive and flexible enough to be sustainable to me.

Or if I, you know, like say, here’s who I am. Here are some of the changes that I propose that I think will help this feel better for me, help me get better results for you. And the answer is. Know you need to wear the matching t shirt and be at the things after, you know, like all this stuff that that’s the kind of maybe all the information you need to know, like, okay, is there a future for me here or not?

Um, because sometimes there might be, and sometimes there might not. Yeah, I think it can extend past that conversation. I think, um, I don’t, I don’t want to say a lot of the times, but sometimes people are going to tell you what you want to hear and they’re going to say, yeah, that’s okay. Like, I understand.

This is part of it. But as time goes on, if you’re still seeing that you’re getting sort of negative feedback or feeling like you’re not being treated, you know, equally, That can kind of give you that clue too, of like, so maybe that first conversation went really well, but then you have to kind of take the time to see, like, are they actually going to implement these things for me?

Right. Um, yeah, and I think certain places absolutely well, and certain places there, they forget and just kind of go back to the way the status quo, the way they do things. And so totally. Um, It can definitely help you get an idea and an understanding of like, if this is the right place for you, this is the right.

And if you feel like, yes, I love my job itself, maybe it’s more about finding the culture. Like you said earlier, that. Is more understanding of like what it’s like to be an introvert at work is going to support me in the ways that I need to be supported. Yeah, well, on that note, you know that there’s support for introverts, but there’s also I think a place for us to talk about really the unique value that people with an introverted way of being can bring to a team or an organization.

You know, the beginning, we started talking about introvert. Superpowers. And in your mind, I’m, I’m curious to hear more about what those are. I mean, certainly we talked about a, uh, a tendency ability to go deep when it comes to relationships and maybe, you know, be comfortable, uh, talking about things or addressing things that might make others feel a little, a little squeamish.

Um, What else introvert superpowers? Yeah, I think, uh, being thoughtful, they kind of take time to think through things, process information before coming up with an opinion, um, empathetic, uh, Tend to build those relationships easier. Um, those interpersonal relationships with people. Yeah. Um, I think when it comes to, um, making decisions in an organization, important decisions, it can be helpful to have an introvert on your team who’s going to really stop and take time to be fit.

Thoughtful about the process and help you make decisions that are important and shouldn’t be made, you know, just with the quick answer. Something’s right. Thought through. I think there are also things that there’s tasks that are just better done alone. Like not every task needs to be done by a group.

And so having introverts be there, um, They tend to be able to do those tasks by themselves, um, they’re focused, uh, they’re productive on doing those sort of tasks. So I think there are a lot of superpowers introverts have. Um, it’s just, we haven’t been, Telling them enough of them, people think, you know, people tend to think, you know, they don’t have as many superpowers, but I think absolutely.

And I think even introverts can make great leaders. I think that there’s a lot of extroverted leaders, but, um, introverted leaders are going to be great listeners. Um, they’re going to be more thoughtful. So when their, um, employees come to them with issues. They’re going to build that relationship. They’re going to be more thoughtful about the issues, help them solve those issues, make people feel like they’re being heard.

And I think that can be something that they don’t always feel with extroverted leaders who are really comfortable kind of speaking in front of groups and being the center of attention and talking. An introverted leader might sit back and listen more about what are the issues within our group or organization.

And be receptive to those issues and be able to do something about this. And I think introverts tend to be a little more self reflective too and can use those things to then create goals and kind of become more self reflective. You know, better versions of themselves or, you know, improve grow really. So I think there are definitely a lot of superpowers introverts have.

It’s just about figuring those out and using them in a way that is helpful to you. Yeah. Like I, I think I’m hearing you say that, um, well, not all introverts are highly emotionally intelligent. There may be a predisposition to be. Somewhat more emotionally intelligent than somebody who’s very externally focused, like there’s an an internal kind of quality.

Um, I was also coming up for me to that. Maybe we should say out loud. And I don’t know if this is your experience, but I think I think for me, Um, introverts tend to be fairly self sufficient, self reliant, more independent thinkers. They are, they’re going within to find, figure out what is true as opposed to going without, which I think organizationally can also lend to, um, might not need quite as much feedback or praise or positive, like, Things, uh, they may also be a little less, um, sensitive to feedback or perceived criticism.

And they, they may not need quite as much active support and direction around do exactly this thing, you know, like they’re going to just that self reliance is absolutely, I think introverts. Don’t need to be micromanaged now. And that can be a huge plus. If you have people on your team who. Are able to be self starters and self sufficient, right?

And. You know, they end up becoming kind of the workhorses. They don’t need as much maybe feedback or support like you said So, yeah, I think that’s absolutely one of their superpowers as well. Mm hmm. Okay. Well, this has been an incredible conversation and um, I guess the last thing that I would like to just check in with you about, um, you know, we were just talking about flexibility and autonomy and being responsive to different situations.

So one of my big takeaways from this conversation is that it really is quite important for an introvert to be self aware and thinking about that goodness of fit between the occupation itself or the workplace culture or environment. But are there also times and Probably asking you this more as a therapist than as a career coach, but when would you, um, be working with your clients to challenge them a little bit like lean in, this is a growth moment for you to maybe develop more comfort in these situations or, you know, you do actually have to go to these meetings.

How can you make them less painful for you, rather than, um, Especially for somebody with like a very strong introversion tendency, almost indulging this, this withdrawing ness. Like, do you know what I’m saying? Like helping people find a balance between that self acceptance, this is who I am. And I also need to function in the world, in some of the ways that people would like me to, even if they’re not the ways that I would prefer.

Does that make sense? Yeah, no, that totally makes sense. Why don’t you draw those lines? And I think that’s Individual like person to person where you can draw those lines. I think in a way, yes, you do have to go to certain meetings and you do have to participate. And I think if you enjoy your job, you like things about your job.

There are ways to make those things that you don’t like a little more bearable. But if you’re just really unhappy with your job in general, like trying to make those things as a little bit more bearable. Make those things bearable is a little harder, but I definitely think it’s important to also challenge yourself as an introvert.

Um, and think about like, how can I make this meeting better? How can I attend this networking events? Um, and you know, actually make a connection with somebody or how can I build these relationships that are. People are expecting me to build and kind of figuring out how to do those things. And I think there’s a lot of different ways you can try those things out.

And then I think there’s a lot of different ways that you can, you know, practice putting those things into, um, into use to try to make things better for yourself. I think, um, you know, one thing Uh, in past jobs, I’ve had to go to like a million meetings, like just meeting after meeting after meeting. And to the point where I was like, you know, I can’t get my work done going to all these meetings.

And it’s like, well, you pick and choose which meetings that you think are most important to you. Or you asked, like, do I need to be here? Can somebody fill me in afterwards? Things like that. If there’s a lot of like happy hours or networking events, maybe it’s. I’m going to go for an hour and then that’s kind of my cutoff.

I, you know, will do my best to talk to people, say hi, you know, meet new people. And then after an hour I’m done. And so only kind of committing yourself to a short amount of time, um, is one of the things that I think can be helpful as well. But I think there’s ways to make those things a little bit easier for yourself.

Yeah. And kind of balance it in a way that feels better for you. Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. So that, that step one, figuring out if this is, you know, a situation where you should just pull the rip cord and be done. And then step two, if it’s not figuring out ways to, you know, to kind of show up in the ways you need to show up with, um, kind of a, a harm reduction mindset, energy management.

I love it. So, and then very lastly, and so circling background to a question that I was going to ask you towards the beginning of this, this conversation, but then I was like, you know, let me, let me kick this down a little bit further. Um, so, uh, you know, good, goodness of fit is definitely important. And I know in your role as a career counselor and coach, like, you know, that, that work happens in.

stages. And so part of it is like that career exploration and, um, you know, helping people get clarity, like on a big picture of what they want. But then I know that you’re also going into researching like specific workspaces and, and organizations where people could work. And I’m wondering if you could share any tips that could give introverts some visibility

Um, introversion, extroversion dynamics, or like what the, what the expectations would be, because it seems like those are kinds of things that could be difficult to figure out prior to going to work there and actually seeing what it feels like. Do you have any pointers for how to just assess that? From a distance from a safe distance.

Yeah. One of the things I have, uh, my clients use is it’s called onet. It’s a website that you can go on and look up a career and it gives you a lot of information. And so that can be a 1st step into seeing like. It’ll tell you like what the tasks are, what you do on a daily basis to see like, is this something that’s like super heavily people focused relationships, social focused, or is this something that I can kind of have that alone time or spend more time by myself?

By, by career type or by specific organization? So that’s career type. Career type. Okay. For an organization that can be a little more difficult. Um, I think, Trying to, um, find people who, if you know, people that work at the organization, um, which is not, yes, exactly. So that’s the horrible thing. And I think a lot of it too, can come from the interview process, which is tough because then you’re kind of finding out a little bit later in the process.

I’m kind of asking those questions about, you know, company culture and there’ll be kickball involved, style and like, what is the social aspect of the job and, um, asking all those things during the interview can help because I think you can kind of do your research before you can look on companies, websites and read about them.

but until you have somebody who’s It’s in there doing the job. It’s harder to get like a real clear picture of what that looks like in my opinion. So I think sometimes it’s kind of, yeah, you can do your research before, look on LinkedIn and see and look on the company’s websites and look on maybe even like Glassdoor, things like that.

But, um, and having those questions ready for your interview to like, understand, um, the process. And kind of know what type of environment it is. I think it’s probably the best way to kind of evaluate that company culture in a real like understanding, like, okay, this is what it actually is based on somebody who works here.

Got it. All right. Well, this has been such an interesting conversation and, and I hope helpful for our friends listening to this who may identify as introverts and who have been feeling some, some friction on the job. I hope if nothing else, it felt like seen and normalized, you know, it’s not just you, there’s not anything wrong with you.

Um, kind of pushing it back against that narrative, but also, you know, thank you for sharing so many. Tips and strategies for like here is how to change this experience so that it feels a little bit better Is there anything else that you’d like to share before we wrap up? Um, I think I just want to reiterate that it’s normal It’s not there’s anything wrong with you if you’re an introvert and there’s probably other introverts around you You just Don’t quite know it either.

So, so there are other people who are going through the same experience to understand what you’re going through. So you’re definitely not alone in this. Um, and I think there are ways to always make things better. Definitely. So yes, please don’t think there’s anything wrong with you if you’re an introvert.

All right, Susan. Well, great to talk with you today. I really appreciate your graciousness in doing this with me. Um, and hope to, yeah, have you back on the show again sometime soon. All right. Thank you so much. This is great. Isn’t Susan great? I just love talking to her. And if you have been concerned So, if you’re considering career counseling or career coaching, I bet you’ll love talking to Susan as well.

She’s just a gem. If you’d like to learn more about the career counseling services at Growing Self, come on over to our website, growingself. com. And while you’re there, please take advantage of all of the resources that I have available for you on our blog and podcast. Come to growingself. com forward slash blog hyphen podcast.

And from there, you can enter the. Success Collection and access all kinds of curated podcast playlists on this subject of personal growth and, and professional success, um, articles that I’ve written, other articles that Susan or other career counselors on my team have written. It is literally all there for you.

It’s all free. So come on over and help yourself. Alright, that is it for today. I’ll be back in touch next time with another episode. In the meantime, please enjoy more modern art.